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81 replies
African Americans Touring Europe
seqchristina
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I’m curious to find out which European countries blacks feel most comfortable traveling to and why. As an African American woman who lived and worked (satellite tv company) in Rome for ten years, I wonder why blacks don’t travel more often to Italy.

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(First off, I’m white.)

I don’t expect you’ll get a lot of responses from black Americans. I’ve spent a good deal of time bumming around Europe and have run into very, very few individuals who I could categorize as black American tourists. I can only surmise that European travel is generally a very low priority for this group, and that people such as yourself who have an interest in European travel are relatively unique.

When you say "comfortable", do you mean "free from prejudice"?? I can’t imagine why an African-American of either sex would feel any more or less "comfortable" in Europe than any other American. Certainly, shopkeepers and innkeepers in many places could be surprised to find that they are selling something to a black American tourist, given the scarcity of them in Europe. But said tourist is probably very unlikely to perceive prejudice there, if that’s what you mean, because of his/her race, in my opinion.

Now, there is some anti-foreigner sentiment in some countries that is directed at IMMIGRANTS, mostly. If you look Turkish, for example, there are places where you might be perceived as part of a group that wants to settle down, suck away at the social service system and never learn the local language and culture. But tourists with money to spend are rarely shunned as far as I can tell.

That doesn’t mean that black tourists will feel "comfortable", though, if you are using the word in its more traditional sense. I mean, one of the main points of travel is to feel a little uncomfortable in cultural surroundings that are strange and unfamiliar. "Whites" feel uncomfortable there themselves, typically…hence the concept of culture shock. If you’re a black traveling to Europe, you will often be in places that are less diverse than most American cities when it comes to skin color – you’re visiting "white" countries and cultures, after all. If you’re a black American who lives in a black community and hasn’t been out much, you might feel truly odd in a mostly white place. Skin color can be a really big deal for many people in terms of the level of comfort they feel. I suspect that it this is true for many blacks, and that this is one of the reasons you see so few of them in Europe. Europe is White, and in some places heavily Slavic, Middle-Eastern, and Asian, but only in a handful of isolated communities does it exhibit "blackness", and then, mostly just the African-continent kind of blackness. If a black tourist needs blackness to feel comfortable, he probably will be pretty uncomfortable in Europe; if he is usually okay with being around lots of white people, he’ll probably feel the same in Europe.

But when it comes to overt prejudice, African-Americans who visit Europe today are more likely to feel like victims because of the AMERICAN part of their heritage than the African part.

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Black skin certainly won’t turn heads in any major city in Europe. It’s kind of like the US: no one would notice an Afican American in a city, but one might turn a few heads in a small town in North Dakota or Slovakia — and would probably encounter more curiousity than prejudice.

There are probably fewer Blacks on the street in Italy because Italy didn’t have many African colonies and doesn’t have the situation where many Africans have dual citizenship or Italian passports. However, this is changing as the EU makes Europe more European (and thus includes a lot of Blacks with British, French, Belgian, etc. passports) and less French, Italian, German, etc. Also, Italy is where I’ve run into the most African American tourists — maybe because a lot of tour groups go there?

In terms of prejudice, in some ways there seems to be less in Europe and in other ways, more. Europeans may be more accepting of diverisity — I think you’re more likely to see a racially mixed group of kids playing together in Europe — but they are also more accepting of intolerance. There’s less interest in being &quotolitically correct" or in laws, court decisions, etc. to discourage discrimination. Racism, generally directed toward immigrants or gypsies, can be more overt than in the US.

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I don’t think an African American person would feel uncomfortable in any Western European city. There are quite a few black people living in Europe I think, just for some reason not many African Americans travel there. In 2 1/2 months of backpacking, I met only one African American traveller. I asked him about being a black guy travelling through Europe as I knew he had been to a couple of countries in Eastern Europe where there are fewer black people. He said the only country where he got any attn. for being African American was Poland. He said he got some stares and the people were just like :O but that no one was at all rude to him. They just seemed surprised and curious. He totally understood that it was probably the first time some of the kids had ever seen a black person before.

seqchristina
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Yes, I should have explained what I meant by "comfortable". My first visit to Rome was when I was eighteen and the experience taught me a lot about how I was subconsciously feeling in America (NYC): "uncomfortable". In the U.S., we have a tendency to categorize individuals based on skin color, and quite frankly, we possess controlled racist attitudes toward each other. An American writer for "Let’s Go Italy" asked me what it was like being a "minority" in Italy. What???

Conversely, while I was an oddity in Rome, Italians were always inquisitive and friendly. I always say that living in Rome allowed the chip fall from my shoulder. Although I happily grew up in a white suburb, Rome liberated my mentality; if someone were rude to me in Rome, I eventually learned to realize it was because they were either having a bad day, or weren’t the friendliest of people, instead of automatically assuming that person was a racist or prejudiced because he was rude to me.

I wish more African Americans would travel to Italy. Especially now, Italian kids and adults as well, have embraced black music (hip-hop, rap, etc.) and hip-hop culture, it’s unbelievable. There are black music radio stations, and some of the best clubs sitting right there in the Eternal City. Beyond the superficiality of entertainment, traveling to Italy is a wonderful and educational experience.

Historically, there were many Africans who played a part in Italian history; Hannibal, Cleopatra, Haile Selassie (Mussolini occupied Ethiopia, which is why you’ll find numerous Ethiopians living in Italy) and there are more.

Last thing, I think blacks don’t travel to Italy because they assume Italians across the Atlantic are identical to Italians living in Bensonhurst, Brooklyn. Unfortunately, Italian Americans clash quite often with blacks, if they have any contact at all. African Americans are fearful.

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quote:
Last thing, I think blacks don’t travel to Italy because they assume Italians across the Atlantic are identical to Italians living in Bensonhurst, Brooklyn. Unfortunately, Italian Americans clash quite often with blacks, if they have any contact at all. African Americans are fearful.

Well, this is a stereotype, but what I do want to say is this: there are major differences between European-Americans, and their counterparts in Europe. Many Italian, Polish, Greek, Austrian, and German communities have been living in the US since the 1940s and 1950s. They know the mother country only through their parents/grandparents who remember it the way it was back then, while missing out on the major cultural changes that have taken place "back home" since then. An Italian-American might be surprised to see that modern-day Italy is an affluent and liberal modern country with high-speed trains and the world’s lowest birth rate. Point being: that these European-Americans also feel uncomfortable in Europe due to different expecations and a culture clash (having grown up in the USA, the person probably knows nothing about contemporary pop culture and contemporary slang in the mother country.)

As Russ says, you will probably stand out more for being American, at least in the EU/EEA countries. Remember, that most EU countries have either sizeable Carribean communities (esp France, Britain, and the Netherlands), and/or immigrants from Africa…as well as tremendous exposure to famous African-Americans and African-American culture thanks to Hollywood films, American shows, American pop music, etc etc.

That article about being a "minority" in Europe is hysterical. I completely agree with you that it’s a very American way of seeing things. How can you be a minority in Italy, if you’re not a permanent resident of Italy? A minority is any group of people whose culture, religion, linguistic, or ethnic group makes up less than half of the permanent population. African-Americans are a minority in the US, Basques in Spain, Lapps in Finland, French-Canadians in Canada, and so on.

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In terms of prejudice, in some ways there seems to be less in Europe and in other ways, more. Europeans may be more accepting of diverisity — I think you’re more likely to see a racially mixed group of kids playing together in Europe — but they are also more accepting of intolerance. There’s less interest in being &quotolitically correct" or in laws, court decisions, etc. to discourage discrimination.

The reason for that is because in the United Stats, there is a 400 year history between white and black Americans. In Europe, there is no 400 year history of tension between white people and black people. (I’m talking about inside Europe. Not about contact Europeans had with Africans outside Europe during the colonialist/imperialist years.) Black communities didn’t even exist in Europe until fairly recently (20th century). And because of this, the idea of political correctness hasn’t developed to the level that it has in the United States. Also, keep in mind, that African-Americans are a native ethnic group in the USA…in Europe, black people are an immigrant community. One mistake many people make is compare historical and social experiences between the US and Europe without taking into consideration the basic differences.


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Wow, a lot of writing on this subject! Bottom line: frown and be pissed on, or, smile and be accepted. As for blacks being accepted in Europe (and I mean blacks, not African Americans, because I have only meet a handful of African immigrants who have obtained U.S. citizenship); you will feel uncomfortable or comfortable based on your own personal, self-actualization. OH, and I pity the poor Italians who have embraced "hip-hop" culture: as that is the quitenscential POVERTY CULTURE of America. It’s so sad to see that this in the only P.R. victory for America!

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I’m African American and the last 3 years I have backpacked my way around western europe. Last Oct. I went on a 3 week trip to the UK and had a great time. I really enjoyed Scotland. I didn’t get any weird looks or anything. Hell , I think I saw 2 Black people the whole time I was in Inverness. I have been to Italy the past 2 years and felt the Italians in the larger cities were rude. But the same can be said about Americans in their larger cities. I didn’t perceive the rudeness as racist motivated, there seemed to be plenty to go around.

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I’m an African American woman who is considering moving to Rome or Florence for a year. Do you have any suggestions or comments for a single AA woman moving to Italy?

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Do you have any suggestions or comments for single, black, females living, working or studying in Italy. Have you had a good experience as a black female working in Italy?

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I am an African-American woman and am planning to visit Rome in two weeks. I have inquired about racist attitudes in Italy (not at this board) and it is a concern for me because one of my friends was attacked by Neo-Nazis in Italy a year ago.

I am told that this is not the norm and am looking forward to having a good time.

It is true that African Americans are not particularly interested in travelling abroad. I think that a lot of us are proud of our culture in the United States and like many Americans, we aren’t interested in what the rest of the world has to offer.

shrugs

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i’m an african-american male on the inside and i was fine in rome

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Goodness, some of these replies are so ‘cute’, to say the least. I am a black American female and have lived in Western and Central/ Eastern Europe since 1987. Sorry to say that I’ve never visited Italy, but the first Italian I met in 1987 was racial mixed. Contrary to some of the statements posted, there will be a big difference in the way you are treated according to the color of your skin in Central and Eastern Europe.

The Netherlands, in Western Europe, is quite diverse racially, although they have recently begun to show a bit of anti-foreigner sentiment. Most Western Europeans were very friendly, rarely even curious.

However, crossing over into the former Soviet-block is a completely different story. First, I will say that I have made some good friends there who didn’t seem to care one way or the other. However, there were times I was denied a flat, or service in a shop – I been shouted at and spit at by skinheads, told to go back to Africa. A worker in a post office in Budapest slapped me because she was sure I was trying to steal stamps – I’d previously purchased stamps, so the letters already posted – well, I’d somehow stolen those. Things have calmed down in Hungary, especially in the big cities. Poland, can be very difficult even today. (I found this posting because I’m reseaching a paper – and am finding it hard to find any of my friends still in Poland who can remember meeting many other black American there besides myself.)I met a couple of black American basketball players who decided to return to the States as they were treated so badly in the city…one of the largest cities in the country.

I’m now living outside of London. HERE is a place where your biggest problem will be simply that you are an American. Not all Brits are the same, just as not all Americans are the same. However, a vast number of them seem to live for bashing Americans, putting us all into a very small box of their own making – having never been to America, knowing perhaps 7 Americans! Oh well, to each his own.

Why don’t black Americans visit Europe? Who knows. As members of a tour group, their holiday will usually be great. Living here, however, requires a steely determination to find your own niche and often blow off the silly criticisms that will surely be lobbed at you! But don’t believe anyone who says you won’t be treated differently because of the color of your skin. A comment like that could probably only come from someone who’s skin color is the same as the majority nation he/she visits.

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I’m Thai and in places like Spain where there is a teeny tiny Asian population, people really liked to stare and sometimes comment on my race. Sometimes it felt negative and sometimes it was positive and simple curiosity. I tried to brush it off or joke back in Spanish (which surprised the folks) unless it was offensive, i’d get a little pissed! I experienced less of this in Paris and London.

With my black friend, in Spain, she provoked a lot of interest too. Maybe because she’s really pretty or maybe bc she is black. I’m really not sure. I think generally, people in Europe are tolerant, especially bc they know you are a tourist. Just like any where in the world, it depends on the individual and whether that person is accepting and open minded.

More racial groups besides whites should tour Europe bc it opens peoples eyes to the rest of the world! It will be interesting when I go on my next trip through 5 countries. I will be with my African Amer, Persian/Bolivian, Mexican, and Arab friends! HA! We’ll see who gets the most attention then….

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I have to say that this is one of the stupidest posts I have read for a long time, who gives a shit if you are black or not, go have a good time, Europe is a multi coloured continent. Blacks are everywhere, except the Scandinavian countries, maybe it’s too cold.

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I am not "African American", however I am Black and live in Totonto. (My parents are from Barbados)

I plan on visiting Europe for 3 weeks next May and am anxiouly looking forward to the experience. The places of paticular interest to me are:
London
Paris
Barcelona
Florence
Rome

History,Art ,Architecture,Religion and Photoghraphy are my primary reasons for going.

I am not concerned about prejudice…….
I am concerned about my hair (Black females can relate-smile)
Does anyone know of any good hairdressers in these cities.

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Is that Jake the PIG? Even though you or I may not "give a shit" if someone is black, clearly from Fekete No’s reply, there are plenty of people in Europe who do give a shit about someones skin color. I don’t think it is so out of line for someone of color, who knows that not many African-Americans travel abroad in the first place, to inquire about safety questions.

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Gotta say have you ever heard the topic "Hi I’m a white person and I’m going to Africa, South America, The Bronx/Harlem is it a white friendly place, will I be ok, will the locals like me, where can I find a good hair dresser us white people have difficult hair you know". Black people gotta get over themselves, deal with it, go to Europe have a great time, don’t worry about being black, I sure as hell don’t worry about being brown.

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quote:
I am concerned about my hair (Black females can relate-smile)
Does anyone know of any good hairdressers in these cities.

My guess is you might do best finding such a hairdresser in a Caribbean neighborhood in London. Maybe look around in Stockwell or Brixton. These are in south London. Take the Victoria Line to the end. I was staying in south London last summer and saw numerous women with nicely-done hair, so I guess they found someone Smile.

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quote:
Gotta say have you ever heard the topic "Hi I’m a white person and I’m going to Africa, South America, The Bronx/Harlem is it a white friendly place, will I be ok, will the locals like me, where can I find a good hair dresser us white people have difficult hair you know". Black people gotta get over themselves, deal with it, go to Europe have a great time, don’t worry about being black, I sure as hell don’t worry about being brown.

Clearly this Jake the Peg person has a myopic undertsanding of race. For your information, I have had white friends come up to me and ask if it was safe to visit Harlem (pre gentirification) or the Bronx. Given the fact that they may have faced animosity for being white in these neighborhoods, these were fair questions at the time. And whether you want to accept this or not Jake, Blacks HAVE DIFFERENT HAIR (for the most part) that is NOT catered to outside of large cities in the United States. Given this fact, it is only logical to ask if one is to expect the same lack of hair care in mostly white Europe. And as far of us getting over ourselves, I am sick of IGNORANT people who will not get over themselves and open their eyes to the complexities of race in the United States, and who do not realize that this affects preceptions termendously when one thinks of going to other countries. I agree, it is important to go to other places and "have fun", but to go without paying attention to if (or how) prejudiced people, or cultures, or whole continents may be is just plain stupid.

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You do realise that there are large black populations in the UK, France, the Netherlands, Denmark, Belgium and Germany or are you completely ignorant of the world outside of the US. All these countries have large cities and obviously given the black populations have the type of services that black women need for hair care. Besides Europeans know what a black person looks like and probably couldn’t care less that you are black. People would probably give you more trouble given the sentiment towards the US at the moment because you are American rather than because you are black. That would be something worth worrying about.

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Hi Jake,

I am not American and am not ignorant to the world oustide the US.
I realize that there is a large Black Population in Europe.
I was simply asking advice on where I could find a "good" hairdresser who specializes in our kind of hair.
It is healthy to pamper yourself now and again even if you are on vacation.

I will still have an amazing time.
Thanks to the "Traveler" who provided suggestions of where to go in London…If anyone else can also respond in terms of Rome..I will be set.

Cheers

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Hi Kat I wasn’t meaning to bag you but I find these posts "Hi I’m black and going to Europe, will I be safe" rather demeaning. I personally believe african americans will probably get more grief about being america than being black, maybe even being black would be an advantage.

I was in Norway a couple of months ago and the americans I saw stuck out like dogs bollocks, all loud, nosy, complaining about the food, the weather, why don’t they do things like we do at home. In the town where my wife comes from they get boat loads of americans trying to find lost Norwegian relatives. It’s all rather sad. But this is getting off track.

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Hey Jake,

I can see that you find this post somewhat demeaning.
For some African American travellers…the fear of racism is real. It all depends on experiences they may have encountered or if they have heard "horror" stories.

My son just turned 21…is 6’4"…235lbs …Black … and has traveleled to Sweden, Amstredam and London…He had a blast each time and will be going again this summer..

My intitial fear of him going to Europe on his own was very real at the time..
That fear proved to be unfounded and I can’t wait to make the journey myself..

Take care…

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quote:
Gotta say have you ever heard the topic "Hi I’m a white person and I’m going to Africa, South America, The Bronx/Harlem is it a white friendly place, will I be ok, will the locals like me, where can I find a good hair dresser us white people have difficult hair you know".

White people should’t have any problems fitting in in some South American countries….85% of Argentines, 90% of Uruguayans, and over half of Brazilians are white.


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luv_the_beach
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quote:
In the town where my wife comes from they get boat loads of americans trying to find lost Norwegian relatives. It’s all rather sad. But this is getting off track.

lol. I think it’s the same all over Europe from Lapland to Sicily.


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My mom sells tours to Ireland and she has had many many request via email that start out…

Hello,

my name is Harold Kelly and in 1920 my grandfather came from Cork can you set up a tour to Cork for us and see where he lived, his families graves and such?

I tell her she should just do it and find random houses… apparently she frowns on lying to her customers.

…but back on the topic… I don’t think it’s unreasonable to ask these questions I do think it would be unreasonable not to go because of any of the answers though.

cgirl

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You do realise that there are large black populations in the UK, France, the Netherlands, Denmark, Belgium and Germany or are you completely ignorant of the world outside of the US…People would probably give you more trouble given the sentiment towards the US at the moment because you are American rather than because you are black. That would be something worth worrying about.

Jake,
As far as being "ignorant" of the world outside of the US, I have traveled to many of the places you have mentioned, in addition to other countries in Asia. Maybe we should mention the fact that Spain’s relationship with Morrocco (or Italy’s relationship to other African countries) has produced xenophobia towards people of African descent. Or how Europe as whole is attempting to enact draconian immigration policies. I am sure Europeans are able to discern an african from an african american, but sometimes people do not. Simplistic understandings of global racial dynamics, just because of your own frusrations, do not help. I think it would have been much more helpful if you simply said that you beleived that African Americans would have to deal with being an american more than being an african american in Europe.

Cheers Kat, and good journeys!

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quote:Now, there is some anti-foreigner sentiment in some countries that is directed at IMMIGRANTS, mostly. If you look Turkish, for example, there are places where you might be perceived as part of a group that wants to settle down, suck away at the social service system and never learn the local language and culture.

Will you F*** OFF with this shite!

Immigrants are good for the economy, pay more than their fair share in taxes and social security and have every right to make themselves a new home rather than just let a country use them as a transitory labour force. Immigrants ENRICH a culture!

Looks like you’ve taken an interesting subject to go off on your right-wing Bushbot anti-anyone-who-comes-from-a-Moslem-country-trip again.

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well i am mexican but one thing that kind of made me chuckle. Hannibal and Cleopatra were not black. just wanted to clear that up. anyhow i travelled europe with a black buddy of mine and neither of us had any problems. like someone posted before, you might get some stares or some rudeness, but dont blame "race" for it. people are very curious in europe from what i noticed.

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quote:
Maybe we should mention the fact that Spain’s relationship with Morrocco (or Italy’s relationship to other African countries) has produced xenophobia towards people of African descent.

Or maybe we shouldn’t mention that because it doesn’t make much sense. While I agree that relations between Spain and Morocco have been less than peachy, I have no idea what you’re talking about in regards to Italy. Besides a short stint at colonialism in Libya, Somalia, and Ethiopia, Italy’s "relationship" with African countries is extremely minimal. Britain and France have a much, much deeper relationship with Africa.


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You know, seeing black people in Europe is nothing new. As for African American folks going there, well, you are definitely behind the eight ball on this one. What about all those black people in the US Military stationed on military bases scattered throughout Europe? Do you think the military makes special rules for blacks being stationed overseas so they will feel comfortable in their new surroundings/country? they don’t do it for the whites, so why should they do it for the blacks? black people don’t get treated special in Europe like in America. Over in Europe, its different because people are more open minded.
The point is: Like so many others have said in this post, seeing a black person in Europe is nothing new. I have travelled extensively in several countries in Europe and in everyone of them, I always saw black people and the only way I could tell if they were Americans was when they talked. So blacks should feel comfortable in all of the EU countries. Visiting Europe is probably less stressful than when one visits the United States.

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i just dont understand why people distort facts, they have their own agenda. With all due respect, its amazing to me how african americans claim some historical figures to be african just because they lived in north africa. north africa was for a lengthy period of time been colonized by middle eastern and european folk. people tend to think that the nubian "sub saharan" had a major impact with northern africa, which is nonsense. if you look at the moors, they spoke arab, their architecture was arab, their mathematics was arab, they were by no means nubian. they were 60% arab, 40% berber, roughly. they were the MOORS from morocco. As for Hannibal, his descendants were phoenician, lebanon type folk. cleopatra was greek, alexander was proclaimed pharaoh when he took egypt, since then ALL pharaohs were greek, cleopatra was greek. i understand the black man’s supposed plight, but seriously this has gotten way out of hand. i just dont see why african americans make these audacious claims. if you dont believe anything ive written, then google it or go to the library. by the way, the egyptians were of palestinian and jewish origins.

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by the way, your hip hop culture is "dumbing"
and when you think about it, i dont think there has been so many young, naive, gullable people living on the earth as there is now. kinda makes sense.

aint nothing but a chicken wang my brotha tupac
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dont hate the playa hate da game
pimp some hos

GIVE ME A BREAK

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Umm..I don’t know where Luis’ bitterness towards African-Americans comes from (and why he feels the need to generalize an entire group of people), but honestly, if I was African-American, and I had never been to Europe, I would ask the same questions. American mainsteam culture and media have portrayed Europe as an ethnically homogeneous continent….and news coverage of far-right movements hasn’t done anything to alleviate these concerns. While there is so much more to Europe, the US media (which includes films, sitcoms, etc) always focuses on the few limited things that fit what Americans choose to believe. Add to that the sensitive history between the USA’s African-American minority and European-descended majority, you can’t blame ordinary African-Americans for having qualms about visiting the continent where white poeple originated from. My advice is: everything will be fine, and you will most likely have the time of your life!


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i dont really care if people agree with me or not. hip hop is definitely corrupting and dumbing this country down, as well as the rest of the world that listens to that trash. i know many people who feel this way so dont even try to change my mind. like i said lets agree to disagree. and seqchristina you can stop right there. dont you dare try making Italy "black". that insults me. my great, great grandfather was italian and ive been to italy several times. your post angered me. keep that poison about africans and their supposed history with italy to yourself and dont spread it around like a
plague to people out there who dont know any better. you and your africanizing italy bullshit. i know your agenda. hannibal and cleopatra nubian, thats a good laugh. hey denzel washington, yes your west coast of africa ancestors are the descendants of hannibal lol. make me laugh some more you self righteous prick. go ahead and play hannibal in hollywood. on another note, arent you sick of whining? "how does europe feel about african americans traveling there?" give us all a break, that also insults everyone. weve been hearing that sh*t for decades and it has become a tiresome bit. you people think youre so self righteous. by the way, in my opinion, you seqchristina starting this thread with that question makes YOU racist.

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As much as I disagree with Luis, I do have to point out a mistake in one of seqchrsitina’s quotes:

quote:Historically, there were many Africans who played a part in Italian history; Hannibal, Cleopatra, Haile Selassie (Mussolini occupied Ethiopia, which is why you’ll find numerous Ethiopians living in Italy) and there are more.

Cleopatra was a Greek woman from a Greek family (the Ptolemies) who was installed by the Romans to rule Egypt. The Ptolemies were not indegenous Egyptians. By this time, Ancient Egypt had fallen to Greco-Roman rule and was ruled by outsiders. I guess we can call her "African" because she lived in Africa (like white South Africans), but ethnically, she was a white European woman.


beach-lunch-siesta-beach-shower-dinner-nightlife-repeat

Kat234
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Regarding luisfc1972’s bitterness towards black people…

My only comment is that he may not have been exposed to a variety Black people in all walks of life.
My circle of friends and aqauintences include Leaders in Education, Law, Telecommunications, Medicine, Government, The ARTS, Community Organizations and Philanthropy, Media and Film, Music, Science and Technolgy, Sports and Religion.

I don’t believe that given the chance to engage with several of these individuals would change luisfc1972’s view. He is clearly beyond help.
In his world he believes that Hip Hop is definitely corrupting and dumbing this counrty down" Millions of people think otherwise.
To each their own.

To recap……I still love Hip Hop!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

seqchristina you will have a good time.

My cousin is black…and a VP of Corporate Finance. She has worked for JP Morgan in both London and Rome. She has lived in Paris….was at the Pentagon for 5 years..has worked for Deloitte and Touche…holds a NASD, SEC and SFA Registered Representative licences.

She also holds an MBA in Finance from the Whartan Scool and a B.S.E. in Civil engineering from Princeton. She is in her thirties .. If you wish…I can contact her to provide you with a more comprehensive view of what it is really like in the various cities throughout Europe.

Cheers

Kat

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The hip hop shit he is talking about is mass played mainstream commercial garbage. I could say all rock music sucked based on what I hear on the radio too. Sure, I could do that, but I’m not a jack ass.

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Sickboy….

I even like the so-called "mass played mainstream commercial garbage".
I simply love the "beat" . I don’t always agree with the message pertaining to lyrical content…I see it as entertainment.

I am in my 40’s…I have a daughter who is in her 5th year at U of T and my son just graduated from college last month. My daughter listens to "hardcore" hip hop…she also listens to Alannis Morisette and classical music. Neither my son nor daughter do drugs, go clubbing or drink. I have had no problems with them and I feel truly blessed. They have not become "Dumb".

Each person is entitled to their own opinion…my objection to luisfc1972 is his stereo-typical perception of all black people.

I plan on visiting Italy next year (Rome, Venice, Florence, Lake Como, Capri, Cinque Terre) …..
Do you know of any good clubs that play Hip-Hop? (smile)…
My kids don’t go to the clubs, but I go at least 3-4 times a year and still have a blast….(OutKast…Usher…Sean Paul…Kanye West.. R.Kelly…playing in the background)

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r. kelly playing in the background watching 13 year old children piss.
good job kat.
this ends my communication in this thread

Kat234
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Bon Voyage luisfc1972….

Kat….

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The club is Nasa, and its downtown in Toronto!

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I live near Nasa, it’s lame. For old school hip hop, Sunday nights at the Phoenix.

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I liked it, then again my mate and I were on our 6th or 7th pitcher, still hooked up with some cool cats to the afterhour club and a nice house party, getting back round 10, not bad for a Tuesday in Canada… much nicer than Winnipeg was.

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Is there after hours in Toronto? I’ve haven’t seen one here in ages.

Im in Montreal most weekends, much better clubs up here. Toronto has a few decent ones, Tonic, The Madison & Miluakees come to mind.

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I have never been to the Phoenix on a Sunday night…
My sister, puts on a yearly Female HipHop showcase at the Phoenix every summer. It’s in its" eleventh year. (She is also in her forties)
Nelly Furtado was "discovered" at one of her events.

It is a long weekend here in Toronto….

Perhaps I’ll go….
Thanks for the tip!!!!

http://www.phemphat….
http://www.phemphat….

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quote:
I have to say that this is one of the stupidest posts I have read for a long time, who gives a shit if you are black or not, go have a good time, Europe is a multi coloured continent. Blacks are everywhere, except the Scandinavian countries, maybe it’s too cold.

Lol, I live in Sweden and my next door neigbour is black owahhhh! No seriously there are blacks in Scandinavia as well and no one will stare at you because of your skin colour.

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I can second Jet’s comment about Black People in Scandanavia.
My ex’s brother is manager at the Volvo plant in Gothenburg.
He arrived a couple of years ago and has commented that he and his
family have not experienced racism thus far.

He did indicate that the Swedish people are frank and honest (brutally so). Some people might get offended by their bluntness. He said that it part of their culture so just accept it. He also indicated that learning a few "key phrases" will go a long way.

My son is returning to Sweden this September for the third time in 2 years. The first time he went in the summer..the second in the winter.
He also plans on visiting Denmark.

Kat

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quote:
Hey Jake,

I can see that you find this post somewhat demeaning.
For some African American travellers…the fear of racism is real. It all depends on experiences they may have encountered or if they have heard "horror" stories.

My son just turned 21…is 6’4"…235lbs …Black … and has traveleled to Sweden, Amstredam and London…He had a blast each time and will be going again this summer..

My intitial fear of him going to Europe on his own was very real at the time..
That fear proved to be unfounded and I can’t wait to make the journey myself..

Take care…

This ia really late, but Kat can you hook me up with your son?

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Hi Duttyeh….

What is your email address so that I can forward it to my son.
FYI…He will be heading to Gothenburg on Sept 17th….and returning early October.
He is not into the club scene at all…doesn’t smoke or drink..
He is more into Architecture, history, photography…

I treated him to the flight as a graduation present…
He will be responsible for any other expenses.

Kat