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22 replies
Auschwitz
ZIG2003
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Ok so not really a favorite place but I figured this board could help me the most. Can someone tell me how far is the trip to the camp from Berlin? Can it be done in a day trip? What cities do I need to take a train to to get there? Do american citizens need visa’s to enter Poland? and are rail passes accepted in Poland? Any other information on your visit to Auschwits will would be greatful. Thanks in advance.

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You cannot do it as a daytrip from Berlin, but it’s an easy daytrip from Krakow. There are at least 2 trains from Berlin to Krakow, one overnight and one during the day (leave in the morning, arrive in the afternoon/evening). See http://reiseauskunft… for schedules. Americans don’t need visa to Poland. If your railpass is accepted there or not depends on what railpass you have.

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Unless something has changed in the last few years, your traditional "Eurail" pass will not work in Poland. However, there is a "Europe East" rail pass that works in Poland, Hungary, Austria, etc. As Seraphim said, you do not need a visa to enter Poland if you are an American citizen.

Auschwitz is incredible—one of the most moving (and well preserved) historic sites that I have ever visited. If you go (from Krakow) I recommend spending the entire day, spluring for a guided tour (well worth it), and visiting nearby Birkenau, aka Auschwitz II.

If getting that far is out of the question, I’m fairly certain that there is another "death camp" not far from Berlin, a conceivable daytrip. I don’t recall the name, but you should do a search.

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quote:
If getting that far is out of the question, I’m fairly certain that there is another "death camp" not far from Berlin, a conceivable daytrip. I don’t recall the name, but you should do a search.

Sachsenhausen

ColinO
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You could fly! It takes just over an hour.
Easy Jet fly between Berlin and Krakow and are always value for money.

Check it out. Some rates as cheap as 5 Euros. (March 2006)[url=‘http://www.easyjet.com’]Easy Jet[/url]

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I agree that your best bet is to visit Auschwitz as a day trip from Krakow. From Krakow, there are numerous times that shuttle buses leave for Auschwitz…you can catch these buses back to Krakow after your visit. I think it was only about 7 zloty each way (about 2 dollars). The visit to Auschwitz will take the majority of your day if you go into every single exhibit as well as Birkenau. Definitely a moving experience and something you should see if you’re in that part of the world.

Jack
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I can’t speak for Auschwitz but I recently visited Dachau which was very moving and draining emotionally. I imagine that Auschwitz would be even more so.

Phil Hendrie Fan
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Will someone ask one of the guides, if you hire one, about the disappearance of two and a half million inmates from the concentration camp.

The plaque outside the main camp used to read;
"Four million people suffered and died here at the hands of the Nazi murderers between the years 1940-1945".

In 1990, it was replaced with a new plaque stating that ‘about one and a half million’ people were killed there in the same period. I think the latest estimate is 1.1 million.

What I’m wondering is why didn’t the authorities change the overall figure of six million European Jews killed, in light of this?
6 million minus 2.5 million is not six million anymore if my sums are correct?!

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Because there were many such camps.

ZIG2003
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WOW Phil! Your ignorance amazes me

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So, enlighten me then?

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I did.

It isn’t the overall numbers, it is the numbers at the camp.

Here is a link :

http://en.wikipedia….

Treblinka – 800,000

Warsaw – 200,000

Sobibor – 250,000

Maly Trostenets – 200,000 – 500,000

Majdanek – 200,000

Lviv – Unknown

Chelmno – 340,000

Belzec – 600,000

Auscwitz Birkeneau – 1,100,000

So using the minimum, that is 3,690,000 people exterminated at the MAJOR camps.

Add in the others and the number approaches the 6 million target. Still lowballing however.

Any bickering over the exact amount is a waste of time, IMO.

I think you are certainly right to question these figures.

Let’s not forget how many peoples lives were shortened by their experiences there as well.

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I still don’t get how the six million figure remained unmodified, after the 4 million that were supposed to have died at Auschwitz-Birkenau was revised down to 1.1 million.
But, thanks for your explanation and info nonetheless, sickboy.

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I second the recomendation on Dachau. It is a very easy trip from Munich. My son and I went there a month or so ago. Here are some pictures.

http://reedsadventur…

ColinO
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Perhaps the 4 million quoted represented the amount that died in all Polish concentration camps? Toting up the numbers from the link above gives you over 3.5 million in Poland.

Auschwitz-Birkenau 1,100,000
Be³¿ec 600,000
Che³mno 340,000
Majdanek 200,000
P³aszów 150,000
Sobibór 250,000
Stutthof 110,000
Treblinka 800,000
Warsaw 200,000

Remember also before the Nazis moved towards the process of Extermination Camps they had Mass Executions at alarming rates. These would not have been attributed to the camps death toll.

The well-known "6 million death toll" remains as the estimated total despite the adjustment to the Aushwitz sign becuase surely that would not have included a total of 4 million from Aushwitz, otherwise the total for Poland alone would have exceeded 7 million, let alone millions more around Europe.

The sign outside Aushwitz was obviously incorrect, but did not form the part of the 6 million estimate.

But at the end of the day, it’s number snumbers. If it were 4 million or 8 million the attrocities were a horrific act of evil on a scale beyond comparisson.

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Phil,

I found the answer specific to Auschwitz in the lates National Geographic. Seems the 4 million figure that was previously used was the one by the Communist authorities, which explains the inflation!

The overall number of 6 million isn’t affected by this.

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I watched (twice) a fantastic movie yesterday! It’s called "Downfall" – and is about Hitler’s last days in Berlin.. What a great, no, unbelievable job this guy did playing the Fuhrer!!! Best movie I have seen since Saving Private Ryan!

I am leaving from EWR with $4000 for 9 days

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quote:
I watched (twice) a fantastic movie yesterday! It’s called "Downfall" – and is about Hitler’s last days in Berlin.. What a great, no, unbelievable job this guy did playing the Fuhrer!!! Best movie I have seen since Saving Private Ryan!

I second this, I watched "Der Untergang" at a theatre in Berlin (Potsdamer Platz) during my backpacking trip. I thought it was excellent.

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That would make sense, Sickboy.

I’ve read all kinds of varying estimates, from Swiss newspaper reports from 1945 that say 1.5 million Jews were killed, to post-war Red Cross figures that say total concentration camp dead was in the tens of thousands.
Some elderly Jews I met in America grew-up with the figure of three million of their people killed.
Last summer backpacking I met people who claimed that the real figure of Jews killed in WWII was 10 million.
Israel has made questioning the six million figure an international crime and many European democracies jail people who dispute that same figure, which only intrigues me more.
Historical inquiry is something I feel should not be punishable by prison or censure, whether it’s a historian on WWII, someone who says Mary Magdalen was Jesus’s wife, or oddballs who say that UFOs built ancient pyramids.

As for ‘Der Untergang’ I quite liked that, being interested in WWII and history in general. It caused something of a stir in Germany I believe. Some excellent acting, alright.

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There might’ve been something I saw on PBS.org which may perhaps solve the number dilemma here.

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3 million Polish Catholics were killed in death camps in WW2, six million Poles in total

Hitler declaration:

to kill "without pity or mercy, all men, women, and children of Polish descent or language.

Again erradication of the Poles was first up before any Jewish final solution but alas the holocaust has been hijacked by Zionists to perpetuate "the holocaust industry", it’s myths and fuel the compensation programme, with misinformation, lies and greed.

http://www.holocaust…

Negative or anti Jewish hostorical revisionism however well intentioned is a war crime in itself.

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So I’m guilty of a war crime by bringing up the subject, or I would be if I were to research the subject properly.
Yippee!!!

Plane ticket please, to the Hague, for one.

How can historical inquiry be a war crime? That is a load of bollox, jboy.

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Listen you fud, that’s how it’s preceived by the Jewish leaning press and general population today, any criticism of Jews and they wheel out the Nazi label, in fact it’s the Americans who now hold sway on who goes to the Hague, Extremist Albanian Muslim drug/gun runners don’t, Iraqi leaders do, Indonesian Generals don’t, Serbian Politicans do and so on.

Ever wondered how Jews deep in Russia are receiving German repatrations (and there numberes lied about) even though they were nowhere near the Russian front or in German occupied territory during the war?

What you believe to be truths is a load of bollox!