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Santa Klaus
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quote:
I’m not complaining. Europeans cheered when Katrina struck.

Bullshit.

quote:
Really, are you sure we don’t tax fuel?

Not nearly as much as would be appropriate.

quote:
I got a cheap plane ticket to Stuttgart.

Because aviation fuel is still way too cheap.

quote:
Really, so Times Square in NYC, downtown SF is "dead"?

A traffic-clogged square can still be "dead". Downtown San Francisco? Yeah, I forgot there are a few exceptions. Take downtown Atlanta – the dullest concrete dersert on earth, and I didn´t even see it BEFORE the Olympics.

quote:
I’m not sure what point you are trying to make. Are you trying to extrapolate data from the past few years to 4000 AD?

Aren´t 8.5 TRILLION (or 400 billions p.a. on interest payments) enough already? No need to extrapolate. The past few years´fiscal policy was unjustifiable beyond belief.

dorpus
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quote:
quote:
I’m not complaining. Europeans cheered when Katrina struck.

Bullshit.

What about this?

http://www.spiegel.d…

quote:
quote:
Really, are you sure we don’t tax fuel?

Not nearly as much as would be appropriate.

Then what about countries like China, India, or Middle Eastern countries, which do not tax fuel at all?

quote:
quote:
I got a cheap plane ticket to Stuttgart.

Because aviation fuel is still way too cheap.

Do Europeans believe everything has to be taxed, so everyone has to be poor and miserable?

quote:
A traffic-clogged square can still be "dead". Downtown San Francisco? Yeah, I forgot there are a few exceptions. Take downtown Atlanta – the dullest concrete dersert on earth, and I didn´t even see it BEFORE the Olympics.

People here choose to live that way. Would you demand that people in other countries with plenty of space have to live in miserable cities, exactly like the Europeans? Should Mongolia pass laws requiring everyone to live in crowded cities with high fuel taxes?

quote:
Aren´t 8.5 TRILLION (or 400 billions p.a. on interest payments) enough already? No need to extrapolate. The past few years´fiscal policy was unjustifiable beyond belief.

As opposed to the economies of many countries in Africa, Latin America, and Asia, where 100% of the country’s economy is based on debt? Europeans do not complain and give them more money anyway.

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quote:
What about this?

http://www.spiegel.d…

Again: who "cheered"? I can´t see any word of negative sentiment towards America in general, or the Katrina victims.

quote:
Then what about countries like China, India, or Middle Eastern countries, which do not tax fuel at all?

So what? Does that mean they´re right?

quote:
Do Europeans believe everything has to be taxed, so everyone has to be poor and miserable?

I am not poor and miserable. I´m quite happy, actually. I guess I pay less taxes than you do.

quote:
People here choose to live that way. Would you demand that people in other countries with plenty of space have to live in miserable cities, exactly like the Europeans? Should Mongolia pass laws requiring everyone to live in crowded cities with high fuel taxes?

Really, do they have a choice? The only choice they have (if they´ve got enough money) is to move to the suburbs because their city centers suck. If they do so, they have no other choice as to buy two cars per family, as there is no public transport. With the lack of a middle class in the centers they become even more unatractive. With all the cars in the suburbs the government has no choice than to build more roads. With all the fine roads, people can move even further away from their jobs. With everyone communing 50 miles every day, the government can´t tax fuel because all these commuters are voters. It is a vicious circle, not anyone´s coice.

quote:
As opposed to the economies of many countries in Africa, Latin America, and Asia, where 100% of the country’s economy is based on debt? Europeans do not complain and give them more money anyway.

You compare the USA to African economies? Well, if we extrapolate your policy a few more decades you might indeed end up where Mexico is now.

dorpus
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quote:
Again: who "cheered"? I can´t see any word of negative sentiment towards America in general, or the Katrina victims.

What about this?

http://www.taz.de/pt…

"Yet joy and sympathy beat simultaneously in my chest. I am, for example, joyful at the moment that the latest hurricane catastrophe hasn’t again hit some poor land, but instead the richest country in the world.

Yes, I even see in that a form of balancing justice for that which the inhabitants of that country have done to others through their war in Iraq.

I would, however, be even more happy, if I knew that only the houses of Bush voters and members of the Army had been destroyed.

I feel genuinely sorry for all the rest."

quote:
quote:
Then what about countries like China, India, or Middle Eastern countries, which do not tax fuel at all?

So what? Does that mean they´re right?

Maybe it is only Europeans who believe it is wrong — the same way Muslims tell everyone else that eating pork is wrong. Oh I forgot, you are being taken over by Islam.

quote:
I am not poor and miserable. I´m quite happy, actually. I guess I pay less taxes than you do.

Logic error: p => q does not imply q => p.

quote:
quote:
People here choose to live that way. Would you demand that people in other countries with plenty of space have to live in miserable cities, exactly like the Europeans? Should Mongolia pass laws requiring everyone to live in crowded cities with high fuel taxes?

Really, do they have a choice? The only choice they have (if they´ve got enough money) is to move to the suburbs because their city centers suck. If they do so, they have no other choice as to buy two cars per family, as there is no public transport. With the lack of a middle class in the centers they become even more unatractive. With all the cars in the suburbs the government has no choice than to build more roads. With all the fine roads, people can move even further away from their jobs. With everyone communing 50 miles every day, the government can´t tax fuel because all these commuters are voters. It is a vicious circle, not anyone´s coice.

So you’re saying that nobody in America chooses to live in suburbs, which offer rustic charm that the cities don’t? Are we sure that rich Europeans living in big cities do not pay a lot of money to buy houses in the countryside? Are you sure that plenty of yuppies do not move into cities from the suburbs, but eventually get bored of the city and move back out to the suburbs? There’s only so much that nightclubs and overpriced shopping boutiques have to offer.

quote:
quote:
As opposed to the economies of many countries in Africa, Latin America, and Asia, where 100% of the country’s economy is based on debt? Europeans do not complain and give them more money anyway.

You compare the USA to African economies? Well, if we extrapolate your policy a few more decades you might indeed end up where Mexico is now.

Sounds good to me. You give us money, we’ll spend it for you.

Santa Klaus
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quote:
What about this?

http://www.taz.de/pt…

"Yet joy and sympathy beat simultaneously in my chest. I am, for example, joyful at the moment that the latest hurricane catastrophe hasn’t again hit some poor land, but instead the richest country in the world.

Yes, I even see in that a form of balancing justice for that which the inhabitants of that country have done to others through their war in Iraq.

I would, however, be even more happy, if I knew that only the houses of Bush voters and members of the Army had been destroyed.

I feel genuinely sorry for all the rest."

This is of course ugly. I don´t want ANY house to be destroyed, not even Bush´s ranch. I wish him some happy years there, after 2008 or – hopefully – sooner.

However:
1. TAZ is a far-left newspaper. You still can´t say "Europe cheered".
2. What you quoted has been tourn out of context. The author says he´s fascinated by catastrophes in general, and the point he´s trying to make is this: if desasters which occur more frequently now due to climate change would only hit poor countries (like they usually do) the USA wouldn´t give a flying fuck. Which is true.

quote:
Maybe it is only Europeans who believe it is wrong — the same way Muslims tell everyone else that eating pork is wrong. Oh I forgot, you are being taken over by Islam.

We are not talking about the 10 commandments here, you moron. This is not about what we "believe". Global warming is a fact and can be measured. With thermometers, you know?

quote:
Logic error: p => q does not imply q => p.

No logic error. You say we want to mak ourselves unhappy with taxing everything. Your error: we aren´t unhappy.

quote:
So you’re saying that nobody in America chooses to live in suburbs, which offer rustic charm that the cities don’t? Are we sure that rich Europeans living in big cities do not pay a lot of money to buy houses in the countryside? Are you sure that plenty of yuppies do not move into cities from the suburbs, but eventually get bored of the city and move back out to the suburbs? There’s only so much that nightclubs and overpriced shopping boutiques have to offer.

People choose to live in suburbs everywhere. Why not? But in America MOST do. Because: centers are ugly, dead, expensive, dangerous. Because: fuel is cheap so anyone can afford to have one car per adult family member, to use it to commute 50 miles per day. In Europe, you´re taxed out of that sort of shit. The government saves money on roads (not that many needed) and invests in public transport.

quote:
Sounds good to me. You give us money, we’ll spend it for you.

We did this once. Germany wired 10,000,000,000 Deutschmarks for your Gulf War I. What did you do with it? Leave Saddam in power and re-install Kuwait´s corrupt government.

We won´t do that again. Your government proved to waste money more efficiently than any Nigerian dictator. And still does.

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quote:
quote:
Do Europeans believe everything has to be taxed, so everyone has to be poor and miserable?

quote:
I am not poor and miserable. I´m quite happy, actually. I guess I pay less taxes than you do.

Logic error: p => q does not imply q => p.

Dorpus has made the logic error.
The initial post:

quote:
Do Europeans believe everything has to be taxed, so everyone has to be poor and miserable?

If p then q. (If you are taxed then you are poor and miserable.)

Santa Klaus counters:

quote:
I am not poor and miserable. I´m quite happy, actually. I guess I pay less taxes than you do.

If ~q then ~p. (If I am not poor and miserable then I do not pay taxes.)

You made the implication that if taxes exist then so do poverty and misery. Santa Klaus made the proper answer by saying that if he is happy(not miserable) then he does not pay (high) taxes.

This is a very logical reply.

Eat the food, use the wrong verbs, and end up getting charged double.

dorpus
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quote:
2. What you quoted has been tourn out of context. The author says he´s fascinated by catastrophes in general, and the point he´s trying to make is this: if desasters which occur more frequently now due to climate change would only hit poor countries (like they usually do) the USA wouldn´t give a flying fuck. Which is true.

So the USA is not a huge aid donor, and being a Good Samaritan is not a big theme in our culture? Ok.

quote:
We are not talking about the 10 commandments here, you moron. This is not about what we "believe". Global warming is a fact and can be measured. With thermometers, you know?

As we saw, the thermometers say that Europe was much warmer in 1200 AD. So global cooling seems to be the fact here.

quote:
No logic error. You say we want to mak ourselves unhappy with taxing everything. Your error: we aren´t unhappy.

You sure you aren’t miserable, deluding yourselves with "global warming" nonsense? When Europe was warmer in the medieval ages, you used to flog yourselves bloody for no reason, and you seem to be continuing the tradition today.

quote:
People choose to live in suburbs everywhere. Why not? But in America MOST do. Because: centers are ugly, dead, expensive, dangerous. Because: fuel is cheap so anyone can afford to have one car per adult family member, to use it to commute 50 miles per day. In Europe, you´re taxed out of that sort of shit. The government saves money on roads (not that many needed) and invests in public transport.

People here are opposed to public transportation, and communities vote against it. In a democracy, the government respects the wishes of the people. If you want to punish yourselves living in your ugly, dead, expensive, dangerous cities, then nobody is stopping you.

quote:
We did this once. Germany wired 10,000,000,000 Deutschmarks for your Gulf War I. What did you do with it? Leave Saddam in power and re-install Kuwait´s corrupt government.

You told us not to invade Iraq, so we didn’t. As usual, we shouldn’t have listened to you.

quote:
We won´t do that again.

Are you sure you aren’t doing it again, sending German soldiers to Iraq, spending millions of euros?

dorpus
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quote: If ~q then ~p. (If I am not poor and miserable then I do not pay taxes.)

Since when is Germany tax-free? The logic is wrong.

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quote:
Since when is Germany tax-free? The logic is wrong.

I don´t live in Germany. I live in Austria. And I said I probably pay less taxes than you do (because fuel is heavily taxed but I don´t have a car). So I´m happy. YOUR logic is wrong.

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Well hey, by coincidence, I just came across a half-way productive topic on another forum. If I’m not mistaken, licorice is popular in Germany. How do you say "I want STRONG licorice" in German?

The Germans may be good for something after all. But knowing the internet, somebody will give a false translation of some insulting expression.

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quote:
So the USA is not a huge aid donor, and being a Good Samaritan is not a big theme in our culture? Ok.

BWAHAHAHA! Aid! Ha! Good samaritans! Ha! Hahahahahaha! breathe BUUUAAAAAAAAAhahahahaha! Hahaha! OMG! HAHAHA!

Please have a look at this:

US seen as a bigger threat to peace than Iran, worldwide poll suggests
http://www.guardian….

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quote: How do you say "I want STRONG licorice" in German?

Try this: "Gib´s mir in meinen Arsch so hart du kannst, du geiler Hengst!"

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Oh I see, so you’re saying we are not the world’s greatest ODA donor, contributing more than twice the amount as #2 (Japan)?

http://www.globaliss…

But that’s just for the public sector. Are you saying that US charities such as the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation do not dominate private sector charities either?

You’ve never heard of the Marshall Plan, which fed millions of starving Europeans, and gave rise to the socialistic dependency culture of post-WW2 Western Europe; or the Peace Corps, which continues to feed millions of people worldwide?

But you’re right, in the true spirit of charity, we let weaker countries in Europe boast their useless statistics about "higher percentage of GDP" or whatever. It’s better to let the Europeans feel proud of supporting African and Latin American dictators.

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quote:
quote: How do you say "I want STRONG licorice" in German?

Try this: "Gib´s mir in meinen Arsch so hart du kannst, du geiler Hengst!"

Well let’s see, according to the web-based translator, that is "Gib’s me into my ass so hard you can, you geiler Hengst!"

I figured you’d probably act that way. It was a test of your character.

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quote:
It’s better to let the Europeans feel proud of supporting African and Latin American dictators.

BWAHAHAHA! evil Europeans Ha! Ha! supporting Hahahahahaha! breathe BUUUAAAAAAAAAhahahahaha! Latin American dictators! Hahaha! LMAO! HAHAHA!

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quote:
BWAHAHAHA! evil Europeans Ha! Ha! supporting Hahahahahaha! breathe BUUUAAAAAAAAAhahahahaha! Latin American dictators! Hahaha! LMAO! HAHAHA!

How old are you anyway?

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quote:

Well let’s see, according to the web-based translator, that is "Gib’s me into my ass so hard you can, you geiler Hengst!"

I figured you’d probably act that way. It was a test of your character.

Hey, what sort of translator do you use, it turns a harmless question into verbal porn? Cool!

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quote:

How old are you anyway?

Same figure as your IQ:

34!

Good night, my geiler Hengst! Come to Germany and mach mir den RRRRUMMMSfeld, baby!

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quote:
Same figure as your IQ:
34!

That’s interesting, since Austrians are usually proud of being more "aristocratic" and composed than Germans. I remember going to a free wine tasting at the Austrian embassy in Washington DC 10 years ago. But then, you do have immature, boastful characters like Mozart or Schwarzenegger.

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Come on, baby, will you listen to what I say?

I AM GERMAN. I LIVE IN AUSTRIA. Is that so difficult?

But I´m really going to bed now. You know, the earth isn´t flat but a ball going round the sun so it´s actually a few hours later here than where you live, err, can you follow me?

Ah, never mind!

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Ok, you hadn’t made that clear before. Your profile talks about the "Faroe Islands", a pseudo-independent region of Denmark.

Between coordinating time schedules with my Japanese girlfriend, I think I know a few things about time differences.

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I´m glad you know the earth is round. It´s a start.

The thing about Faroe is to wind up Austrians. The Faroe Islands beat Austria 1-0 in a football match on September 12, 1990 in Landskrona, Sweden. Austria missed the European Cup qualification and the coach was fired. It was their most humiliating defeat of the century.

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If I’m not mistaken, spectator sports are declining in popularity throughout developed nations. Fewer people today want to passively watch a ball moving around a field on TV; the spectators today are mostly working class men.

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Check this out:

http://www.holiday36…

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Don’t read German, sorry.

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Man, just look at the PICTURES! There were 1.000.000 on the road watching the France vs. Italy match!

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Spectator sports, as in the NBA.

I would think viewership would decline here because of the way the players act. Can’t sit courtside with your kids because of the filthy mouths. Some of the players were in an uproar when they had to dress decently at NBA sponsored events. Some even griped that the NBA should buy the little millionaires their clothes. Now they’re whining because they can’t argue calls and cuss on the court.

I could see why viewership would decline in that sport.

Eat the food, use the wrong verbs, and end up getting charged double.

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quote:
quote:
BWAHAHAHA! evil Europeans Ha! Ha! supporting Hahahahahaha! breathe BUUUAAAAAAAAAhahahahaha! Latin American dictators! Hahaha! LMAO! HAHAHA!

How old are you anyway?

And you?

Eat the food, use the wrong verbs, and end up getting charged double.

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quote:
quote: If ~q then ~p. (If I am not poor and miserable then I do not pay taxes.)

Since when is Germany tax-free? The logic is wrong.

Speaking of logic, you’re reply is somewhat of a strawman type argument. Invalid.

Eat the food, use the wrong verbs, and end up getting charged double.

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quote:
quote:
Same figure as your IQ:
34!

That’s interesting, since Austrians are usually proud of being more "aristocratic" and composed than Germans. I remember going to a free wine tasting at the Austrian embassy in Washington DC 10 years ago. But then, you do have immature, boastful characters like Mozart or Schwarzenegger.

Free? Do they usually charge?

Eat the food, use the wrong verbs, and end up getting charged double.

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I’m wtfed.

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quote:
quote:
Good call. The Democrats won the house back in yesterdays elections.

I wish you a good riddance in 2008!

Not proclaiming my political party, just the election results.

Eat the food, use the wrong verbs, and end up getting charged double.

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quote:
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In other words, large parts of the Earth will hit a new ice age, and be colder than before.

Europe is not "a large part of the Earth", but yes, that is apparently a possible scenario.

Large when population densities are taken into account.

After looking at a map and seeing that Europe covers less than 1/30 of the world, (I excluded Antarctica, North Pole, and the oceans.) I don’t see that Europe is "large part of the Earth" either, landwise or peoplewise. Population density doesn’t equate to large. China on the otherhand….

You should try to be more accurate in your statements. It looks like you word something loose enough so that you can’t get pinned down and when a comment comes back at you, you slide off on another direction to keep from admitting your wrong.

Eat the food, use the wrong verbs, and end up getting charged double.

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WTF are you talking about anyway? If global warming cuts the gulf stream off and we´ll end up covered with an ice sheet we won´t exactly anticipate that.

I’m not complaining. Europeans cheered when Katrina struck.

No they didn’t.

quote:
You are about to cross the Atlantic Ocean for a quickie with your Japanese girl so don´t tell my stories about MY "expensive vacations". All right?

I got a cheap plane ticket to Stuttgart. She’s paying for the hotel. I would never have gone to Europe otherwise — they don’t deserve my money.

You are still getting on a plane and using gas for a vacation as you accuse Europeans of doing.

Eat the food, use the wrong verbs, and end up getting charged double.

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I wonder why some americans say that (that the rest of the world makes international party when something bad happens). Same happened with sept 11….

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I wonder why some americans say that (that the rest of the world makes international party when something bad happens). Same happened with sept 11….

I don’t remember us doing that. I remember the slow American response to the disaster. I remember declining Cuba’s offer of doctors and other help. I remember a (can’t remember country) plane, loaded with food, sitting on a runway for two days waiting for permission to bring it to the U.S.

Some of the other problems were politicians in New Orleans making fools of themselves on TV blaming everyone else and not taking that time to be productive. Then there were the people in New Orleans shooting at people trying to help them and looting stores for non-essentials. How’s a microwave going to help with no electricity. Got to have food to put in it as well.

Most people work together when a disaster hits. You can’t make a judgement based on whiny little exceptions.

Eat the food, use the wrong verbs, and end up getting charged double.

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Yeah, that’s why i added the word "some"….

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quote:
Yeah, that’s why i added the word "some"….

Everybody has their assholes.

Eat the food, use the wrong verbs, and end up getting charged double.

Santa Klaus
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I have only one.