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87 replies
Explosions Across Central London
Gavin B
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A number of explosions on the tube, one round the corner from me in Aldgate East – initially described as a ‘power surge’ – but looks like terrorist attack – as one confirmed, and other unconfirmed reports of explosions on buses. Casualties reported – Whole tube network shutdown. Full scale mobilisation by emergency services.

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All the Metropolitan Police are up here in Scotland for the G8 riots too

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It’s probably pissed off French terrorists getting back at the poms for willing the 2012 olympics.

positiveman
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No, I’m gonna’ go out on a limb here and say it was probably Muslims…

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At least 6 coordinated bomb explosions ? Can’t be anything but a terrorist attack by pissed-off muslims.

But what the heck. Get the body count done and get on …
The brits had it coming anyway, so why bother ?

Kierans
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Sorry Gavin – nothing personal. But by his lap dog behaviour towards the US mr. Blair kind of asked for it …

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Gavin are you in London? I am glad you are okay.

Looks like a right mess. I am so sorry this has happened. Whether it is because of the G-8 or whatever, it is a pitiful way to make one’s point.

Gavin B
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Hi Cil – yes I am, just round the corner from the two Aldgates stations, which were hit – but I was already in when it started

They seem to be saying 4 explosions on the tube, and one on a bus (which seems to have been a suicide bomber). Theres confusion as a blast in a tunnel is producing casualties in two or more stations.

The air above the office is throbbing with helicopters. Wild rumours about the army shooting a suicide bomber in Canary Wharf, but I think thats a dud story. Lots of ‘controlled’ explosions, as the army check out suspect packages. Of course, on a day like today, bags will have been dropped all over the place.

IMO – undoubtedly linked to the G8, also of course, alot of security up in Scotland for that.

Numbers of dead seems ‘relatively’ low compared to 9/11 or Madrid – possbily the low dozens. Looks like they were not in a position to make a big attack, and so have gone for a disruption attack.

Todays London papers were ecstatic at the news of the Olympics, and Londoners, generally a cynical old lot seemed very happy. What a difference there will be in the headlines tomorrow. . .

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As said…. get up and get on.

… worst part is we all look at this and think we are beyond suffering and death (harping back to assisted death and pain control threads).

What you tick on that ballot paper can come back and bite you right in the ass, like those poor souls lying in hospital with their arms and legs blown off!

Makes you wonder, could this be the work of insidious agencies within our own governments… 9/11, questions still not answered… intell fucked up… MI5 & 6 are supoosed to be monitoring Islamic groups and stuff… I have my doubts, was this allowed to happen to keep the Bush mandate on track and make the threat real ???

It’s a timely reminder to the iPod brigade (and Mini Cooper drivers, you know who you are!) that life isnt just about spending your diaposable income and acquiring loads of shoes and shit!

What goes around comes around, it had been too quiet anyway.

I doubt there will be anymore G8 summits held elsewhere after this, and if they are it will be in Washington which is always patriot missile covered, gunships and loads of Cops and stuff.

Hold the summits in Fortress America!

Gavin B
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quote:Sorry Gavin – nothing personal. But by his lap dog behaviour towards the US mr. Blair kind of asked for it …

Blair didn’t get it – Londoners did.

Feb 2003 – 1.5 Million people march through London against war in Iraq.

Separate the culpability of political leaders from the ordinary people who pay the price – whether thats New York, Falluja, London or Madrid.

Gavin B
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quote: As said…. get up and get on

Alot of people won’t be getting up and getting on today.

Cil
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quote:

it had been too quiet anyway.


Not for the civilians in Iraq, it hasn’t.

quote:
Hold the summits in Fortress America!

Already been done, I don’t think we’re any safer.

I have friends leaving for Glasgow on Monday, no doubt that already-tight security will be tighter.

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As previously stated Gav,

a LOT of those marching ticked that Blair box in the election.

Depends on what you prioritize as IMPORTANT.

I didn’t vote (normally vote Labour)

The system no longer reflects the state of the nation, democracy is dead… and the G8 leaders are autocratic, answerable only to big business.

If you don’t believe that then read up on the Bilderberg org…. a think tank that has more power than your government, and unelected, transcends national boundries, financial markets and international law!

These are desperate times we live in, and not just because of Al Qaeda bombings

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GOD I HATE terrorists!
What a bummer…..crap like this really ticks me off.

Gavin B
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quote: a LOT of those marching ticked that Blair box in the election.

yeah, but unlike Spain, there was a pro-war government, and pro-war Tory party. No-one else would win the election.

I normally vote Labour, and agonised about it for weeks – voting Green in the end, but with the luxury of knowing other people would vote Labour.

Either way, some people died horribly today – and I know it happens in Iraq too, which is why I included Falluja along with NY, Madrid and London.

"Get up and get on" isn’t, to my mind, an appropriate comment when they are still pulling bodies out of the wreckage – particularly as they are doing just around the corner from where I am now. You feel differently. There it is.

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Unfortunately Gav, I feel that way nearly every day when a market gets bombed in Iraq or Chechens kill a truck load of soldiers in Dagestan, and it’s not just around the corner.

I don’t need a knock on my front door to knock me out of my consumer induced coma.

That’s the problem with people like you, you’re a just a NIMBY.

Not In My Back Yard !

95 injured, that many people are killed & mained by landmines in Angola every day, It’s London, FUCK, drop everything and give a flying fuck today.

The only people who’ll partially understand the tradegy of Iraq today are those 95 in hospital and even at that, they’re not having their limbs amputated with no morphine or drugs in ill equipped hospitals.

Get prespective and you’ll handles lifes woes a lot better than you are now,

You’re a trauma Prima donna !

Gavin B
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For an apparently intelligent person, you can be a real brain dead oaf, with your I’m-always-right cock-waving. If it was Glasgow, you’d be singing a different tune, and don’t pretend you wouldn’t.

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quote: If it was Glasgow, you’d be singing a different tune, and don’t pretend you wouldn’t.

Rubbish, if it was Govan, I’d have given them a hand planting the bomb at Ibrox!

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Can’t believe this BS. Hopefully it will be the last but I doubt it.

Kierans
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You’re right Gavin – the londoners didn’t send troops to Iraq and Afghanistan .. their government did.

But the londoners (as well as a lot of other brits) voted their government in, so the responsibility comes back to them in the end.

As jboy stated, other things might have had higher priority when they voted – and maybe those shouldn’t have.

So now the londoners pay the price – as well as the copenhageners probably one day will, since they reelected a moron government that brougt danish soldiers into that stupid war as well …

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quote:
quote:Sorry Gavin – nothing personal. But by his lap dog behaviour towards the US mr. Blair kind of asked for it …

Blair didn’t get it – Londoners did.

Feb 2003 – 1.5 Million people march through London against war in Iraq.

Separate the culpability of political leaders from the ordinary people who pay the price – whether thats New York, Falluja, London or Madrid.

Blair was re-elected, so I don’t know what you’re talking about.

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Gavin,

just to compound the general publics stupidity, people have no idea what effect war has on taxation, interest rates, exports/imports etc.

Voting with your pocket isn’t sensible but war apart from being morally wrong (as is the press wheeling out 25 year old gassing pics to trick the public – where was the Regan Central American atrocity photos ???) war puts a bigger dent in the public coffers and your bottom line than any left wing taxation policy dreamt up could.

War should have been the pirmary issue on which the election was fought, not everything else.

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Well, this is kind of old hat for England but it is nice to see how well coordinated they are…compared to the US. Remember the panicked mobs running in no apparent direction when that stupid pilot violated airspace? That’s the picture I get of US Homeland Security.

Anyway, so yeah it’s messed up but it’s like MI5 said…not a question of if but when.

Now they know.

Granted, given the alleged sweep of terrorism into every nook and cranny of the world it’s amazing that this massive enemy that is worth our diving into the red (pun intended) over only managed a few attacks a year in major metropolitan areas for the most part.

That and I get the picture of some random pissed off dudes deciding that they want a piece of the glory so they make a post about being the "secret thumbsoutofourasses now al-qaida society of Europe" and the media goes hog wild over this new group.

How big is London?

How hard would it be for random pissed off guys to pull this shit off and claim to be Al-Qaida?

Point being, yeah terrorism is a problem but it’s also not this huge beast hellbent on taking over the world…well, they might think that actually but any realistic person would realize the futility of such positions.

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I have to say, regardless of the scale in 9/11 terms, this is really terrible and I certainly wouldn’t have expected in London, one of the true melting pots of the world.

Oh, and one other thing: the U.S. has done many things it (or at least 49% of its voting citizens) isn’t proud of…but when people say that the U.S. and London deserve this retaliation it makes my skin boil. Bush and Blair didn’t deserve to be re-elected but that doesn’t mean their people should suffer at the hands of radical extremists. Enemies of these regimes must learn to content themselves with the fact that the Bush/Blair terms of office will be over soon enough.

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These are scary times to live in, friends.

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Over the last year or so, I’ve posted a number of articles about firebrand mosques with radical Imams preaching destruction of the west right there in Europe. When is the west going to get serious about this? Why do we allow radical imams to get away with preaching sedition on our own soil?

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quote:
Over the last year or so, I’ve posted a number of articles about firebrand mosques with radical Imams preaching destruction of the west right there in Europe. When is the west going to get serious about this? Why do we allow radical imams to get away with preaching sedition on our own soil?

Never, those in the Whitehouse, Downing Street and preaching in the Mosques aren’t dying or putting their lives on the line so it’s okay.

Flying onto an Aircraft Carrier when the fighting is all over isn’t very macho!

Maybe we should go back to the middle ages where Kings led their Armies into Battle, the number of wars would drop off to zero by tomorrow if that were the case.

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Just another reminder for the paranoid among us.

If there were indeed 4 explosions (or 7) we’re talking about 4 people (or 7) who carried this shit out. Even if we give them a support group in equal number we’re talking about 8 (or 14) people.

14 out of Islamic World = .000000001%

Hell, if we throw 9/11 in we’re only up to 34 on the high end!

It’s amazing how such a small group of people has managed to capture such a wide audience.

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As it goes… not a single major (national) media outlet in the U.S. is covering this. Have to go on-line for info.

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When are the leaders of the Islamic or Muslim community going to step up and condem these attacks?? Havent heard a peep from them today.

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Please!.. It’s so nauseating to see people pointing the blame at Blair or Iraq or anyone other than the scumbags who did it. Just like the JACKASS Aussies who were out protesting against America after the Bali bombings. It’s the same thing every time. If somebody rapes your sister, you don’t go blaming his alcoholic father or his "depression" or what-the-fuck-ever. You rip his fucking head off. That’s what we did in Afghanistan, and that’s what Bush thought he was doing in Iraq. Iraq is a different story, but in the end fuck ‘em anyway. By "‘em" I mean anyone who threatens America or the West(IMO Iraq didn’t, but again, another story…) So for fuck’s sake stop all this unbelievably ridiculous nonsense.

Human nature doesn’t change. It’s kind of neat to think about Conrad’s book "The Secret Agent", about terrorism in London 100 years ago – this at a time when London was the heart of an empire – not exactly liberal.. And today, hundreds of total fools were up in Scotland ready to protest and bitch and DEMAND that we should cancel debt and give huge sums(MORE huge sums) of money to clueless, ineffectual African gang-leaders, so they can buy more military equipment and fight over who-gives-a-shit-what.. And what happens? These scum-bag terrorists take advantage of the opportunity to kill as many people as they can – kids, anti-war dumb-headed liberals, grandmas, you name it.. And meanwhile most of you are sitting around naively feeling all righteous because you hate Bush and were against the Iraq war etc.. Step back and get a better view of who your enemy is. Cuz it ain’t Blair.

It’s those who want to destroy Western culture, the very culture in which you have the LUXURY to sit around and bash Bush, most of ya’ll’s favorite pasttime..

I know I’ll get slayed for this, but I think there are a lot of Muslims around who don’t do nearly enough to prevent this kind of thing. Kind of like relatives of the guy who wants to rape your sister.. But then why should they? They live in England, the epicenter of extreme, bend-over-backwards for every minority/victim, dumbheaded,unthinking, multiculturalism………………………

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quote:
When are the leaders of the Islamic or Muslim community going to step up and condem these attacks?? Havent heard a peep from them today.

You’re not looking in the right places. Try the BBC

Muslim leaders join condemnation

Muslim women in headscarves are warned to be vigilant Muslim leaders have condemned the attacks on London and said they fear their communities could now fall prey to vigilante attacks. Muslim Association of Britain president Ahmed Sheikh said the attacks would make the Muslim community less safe.

He said women in headscarves might be in particular danger and warned all Muslims to be especially vigilant.

Muslim News editor Ahmed Versi noted one of London’s biggest Muslim areas, around Aldgate, had been targeted.

Mr Sheikh said the unique good relationship Muslims had with the government and society was threatened.

"The person who did this was targeting along with wider British society the Muslim community, ruining the good relationship we have."

http://news.bbc.co.u…

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quote:
It’s those who want to destroy Western culture, the very culture in which you have the LUXURY to sit around and bash Bush, most of ya’ll’s favorite pasttime..

What a load. Seriously, this is SUCH a load of crap for an argument.

Here is a far more intelligent take:

quote:
I heard Michael Scheuer, the former CIA Bin Laden analyst, a couple of times this morning, once on NPR’s Morning Edition and once on the Diane Rehm show. I thought his comments compelling.

He found the statement issued by a "secret jihad" web site similar in form and content to typical al-Qaeda communiques, including the threats against other countries (Italy and Denmark). He was sure this was an al-Qaeda operation.

He noted that Bin Laden had called off any ceasefire and had several times threatened to hit the United Kingdom.

He said that "chickens were coming home to roost" for US and UK politicians who had obscured the nature of the al-Qaeda struggle by maintaining that the organization attacks the West because "they hate our values."

Scheuer believes that al-Qaeda is an insurgent ideology focused on destroying the United States and its allies, because its members believe that the US is trying to destroy them. Al-Qaeda members see the Israeli occupation and oppression of the Palestinians, backed by the US; US support for military regimes like those of Pakistan and Egypt; and US military occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq as evidence of a US onslaught on Islam and Muslims aimed at reducing them to neo-colonial slavery. That is, specific Western policies are the focus of al-Qaeda response, not a generalized "hatred" of "values."

Scheuer opposes any attempt to configure the struggle against al-Qaeda as simple crime-fighting. He believes that they must be addressed through a thorough-going counter-insurgency effort.

All of this seemed sensible to me, and more sensible than most other analysts I heard.

I will try to say more in a bit. One point I haven’t heard so far: The trial of Abu Hamza Misri began a couple of days ago, and I suspect has something to do with all this.

www.juancole.com

Another idiotic juxtaposition, framing your post no less:

THIS:

quote:
It’s so nauseating to see people pointing the blame at Blair or Iraq or anyone other than the scumbags who did it.

Followed by THIS:

quote:
I know I’ll get slayed for this, but I think there are a lot of Muslims around who don’t do nearly enough to prevent this kind of thing. Kind of like relatives of the guy who wants to rape your sister.. But then why should they?

CLUE: You slay yourself dude.

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In other words,

I hate assholes who blame everyone but who perpetrated the act.

All those lazy Muslims in the UK and elsewhere are to blame!

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I thought you might be out to the poor Muslims’ rescue.. You’re so predictably …vigilant when it comes to defending terrorists..

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And furthermore, I don’t really follow your criticism. Did I contradict myself? But then, I suppose, not being a spineless multiculturalist cheerleader, that not agreeing with someone as enlightened and presumably educated as yourself just means I’m wrong or dumb or just plain illogical..

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And furhterFURTHERmore, whatever the initial policy issues may have been, their hatred has BECOME a total hatred of our culture. And I just know how you saw the policy thing and jumped at it, but that’s precisely what I was talking about. Past or present US policies don’t in any way justify this bullshit. Nor would a difficult childhood justify the rapist of your sister..

I think this kind of boils down to the traditional rift between liberals and conservatives, for example with respect to crime. Cut out its causes, or punish the perpetrators? More money for poor people, or more cops and prisons? I agree you have to deal with both sides of it, but when I hear all this predictable BS about blaming Blair or Bush or the Iraq war or whatever, I just have to go sort of overboard in the other direction as a kind of corrective.. Seems a Sysephean excercise sometimes going against the flow of such pervasive, ignorant liberalism, but as far as I can see, if you’re interested in the truth, necessary…

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quote:
I thought you might be out to the poor Muslims’ rescue.. You’re so predictably …vigilant when it comes to defending terrorists..

Why do you have to start off with such an asshole statement?

I’m not defending terrorists, I’m defending those people who you and others constantly want to bash because you’ve extended your hatred for people actually committing terrorism to the culture that has anything to do with them.

The only reason I’m predictable is because you make inane statements and even contradict yourself in your own posts. Muslim culture is not to blame. The Islamic World is not to blame. The people who commit the atrocities…are to blame. So stick to that and you won’t have me pointing out how ignorant some of your statements are.

quote:
And furthermore, I don’t really follow your criticism. Did I contradict myself? But then, I suppose, not being a spineless multiculturalist cheerleader, that not agreeing with someone as enlightened and presumably educated as yourself just means I’m wrong or dumb or just plain illogical..

You don’t follow my criticism? I put it right there, quoting your own words. You say you hate people who blame Blair et al. because Blair et al. didn’t commit the crimes, have nothing to do with it and so on. THEN you end that very same post castigating an ambiguous number of Muslims who, in your words, don’t do enough to stop this sort of thing or speak out against it. That DESPITE my citing a BBC report showing Muslims condemning the attacks.

Am I a spineless, multiculturalist cheerleader to you? Is that all you can muster?

I don’t need to validate myself to you but I have worked in anti-terrorism or for agencies, helping them with anti-terrorism actions, for the last 9.5 years of my life. I am no fan or supporter of terrorists. Nor am I a fan of people who get caught up in the bash Islam bandwagon. The reason I post so regularly about Islam and misdirected hatred is because there are VERY FEW people who do this, especially in the mainstream media sources available to most people. Too easily, entire swaths of our population fall prey to red herring bullshit that taints their worldview and enables a lot of stupidity to flourish…

quote:
And furhterFURTHERmore, whatever the initial policy issues may have been, their hatred has BECOME a total hatred of our culture.

Who is their? Explain that before I lay into you again.

quote:
And I just know how you saw the policy thing and jumped at it, but that’s precisely what I was talking about. Past or present US policies don’t in any way justify this bullshit. Nor would a difficult childhood justify the rapist of your sister..

Where did I say ANYTHING about policies justifying this or that?

CLUE: Nowhere.

quote:
I think this kind of boils down to the traditional rift between liberals and conservatives, for example with respect to crime.

Red Herring Bullshit. Conservatives are tough and liberals are pussies? That is such a laughable position I need not address it.

quote:
Cut out its causes, or punish the perpetrators?

Sure, that’s great. We have to be careful to avoid paradoxes where we cut out cancer in ways that leads to its spread and then continue to operate ad nauseum.

I’ve always liked the idea of working smarter, not harder.

quote:
More money for poor people, or more cops and prisons?

Sad that you seem to see such an either/or world.

quote:
I agree you have to deal with both sides of it, but when I hear all this predictable BS about blaming Blair or Bush or the Iraq war or whatever, I just have to go sort of overboard in the other direction as a kind of corrective..

I didn’t say that Blair, etc. had anything to blame. In fact, your argument was pretty sound until you started blaming people who had nothing to do with it because they don’t do enough…

quote:
Seems a Sysephean excercise sometimes going against the flow of such pervasive, ignorant liberalism, but as far as I can see, if you’re interested in the truth, necessary…

Pervasive, ignorant liberalism?? LOL.

Please explain.

If I’m interested in the truth?

Please enlighten me.

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Does anyone agree with my earlier comment?

That we need to shut down radical mosques on western soil and deport their imams?

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quote:
Does anyone agree with my earlier comment?

That we need to shut down radical mosques on western soil and deport their imams?

You can’t deport Imams for free speech. Sure that sucks and all but we made this country that way and I think most people want it to stay that way.

You’ll have to work on defining ‘radical’ too. A very ambiguous term.

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Suppose the imam is preaching destruction of the west and openly giving praises to Al Queda. Should we shut down his mosque or not?

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Shut down? How about blow up!

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There’s actually a program on my local NPR affiliate about radical mosques in England indoctrinating immigrant youth on hatred of the west. I’ll post the audio link when it’s finished.

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quote:
Suppose the imam is preaching destruction of the west and openly giving praises to Al Queda. Should we shut down his mosque or not?

Absolutely. It is an act of hostile intentions.

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quote:
Over the last year or so, I’ve posted a number of articles about firebrand mosques with radical Imams preaching destruction of the west right there in Europe. When is the west going to get serious about this? Why do we allow radical imams to get away with preaching sedition on our own soil?
I never bothered posting it but they are serious about it. At least in the Netherlands. The radical Imams are being deported (as long as they do unconstitutional things like recruiting for the Jihad. We don’t kick them out just for voicing their opinion. Freedom of speech and all that). I can’t say anything about the situation in the UK but last time I checked the Netherlands was part of the west as well.

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quote:Maybe we should go back to the middle ages where Kings led their Armies into Battle, the number of wars would drop off to zero by tomorrow if that were the case.
I’m all for that. Actually, lest give them swords again. Fox would love it too. Just think about the ratings and income from advertising.

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quote:
There’s actually a program on my local NPR affiliate about radical mosques in England indoctrinating immigrant youth on hatred of the west. I’ll post the audio link when it’s finished.

As in, trying to destroy us from within?

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quote:and that’s what Bush thought he was doing in Iraq.

Can you spell gullible ?

quote:And today, hundreds of total fools were up in Scotland ready to protest and bitch and DEMAND that we should cancel debt and give huge sums(MORE huge sums) of money to clueless, ineffectual African gang-leaders

Actually, if you paid a bit more attention you’ll find that most of them demand some other things as well but hey, simplification is so much easier than comprehension.

quote:These scum-bag terrorists take advantage of the opportunity to kill as many people as they can – kids, anti-war dumb-headed liberals, grandmas, you name it..
people visiting weddings? oh wait, wrong scum-bag terrorists. My bad.

quote:And meanwhile most of you are sitting around naively feeling all righteous because you hate Bush and were against the Iraq war etc.. Step back and get a better view of who your enemy is. Cuz it ain’t Blair.
Actually, am feeling all righteous because we were right about Bush lying to get into Iraq and some (a lot of?) dumb fucks on the other side of the ocean actually believed him.
As for the hate part? Nah, he’s too funny to hate. Like the clowns in the circus. Unfortunately this clown affects all our lives.
As for it not being Blair… you’re right. He only followed like a well trained lap dog.

quote:
It’s those who want to destroy Western culture, the very culture in which you have the LUXURY to sit around and bash Bush, most of ya’ll’s favorite pasttime..
Actually, not even close to my favourite pasttime. That said, Bush makes it too easy to bash him so it’s hard to resist
quote:
I know I’ll get slayed for this, but I think there are a lot of Muslims around who don’t do nearly enough to prevent this kind of thing.
And you based this on which facts? Oh, you didn’t. You’re just pointing your finger. Hope it at least made you feel better.

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quote:
And furthermore, I don’t really follow your criticism. Did I contradict myself? But then, I suppose, not being a spineless multiculturalist cheerleader, that not agreeing with someone as enlightened and presumably educated as yourself just means I’m wrong or dumb or just plain illogical..
uhmm, attacking people for blaming Bush followed by blaming muslims. Was that really so hard for you to see?

edited to say: Too late, vera already pointed that out… again. Guess it was that hard to see

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quote:
Suppose the imam is preaching destruction of the west and openly giving praises to Al Queda. Should we shut down his mosque or not?
Again, possible in the Netherlands (although not done yet I think) as Al Queda is a ‘forbidden organisation’ and supporting those is a criminal act.