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How far ahead to plan?
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aussie09
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G’Day folks
Due to work commitments in Australia, my girlfriend and I have set aside April – July 2009 for our Europe trip.  Yep – nearly 2 years away – but I’m already excited about it and want to do as much planning as I can.  Problem is, it’s too early in advance to plan anything concrete…it’s all rough at the moment.
 
And the itinierary can’t be decided until next May anyway…Our one “Must Do” is the Eurovision Song Contest!! Hahaha so we have to wait until next year to decide the order of our trip.
 
Has anyone been to a Eurovision before? Do you know when tickets become available? It adds excitement because it’s like a lottery…the winning country could be somewhere we never planned to go! Hope it’s good.
 
For the most part I’d love to spend a good 3-4 weeks in Germany, particularly Bavaria & Black Forest, spend a week In Czech Republic, Italy, and good amounts of time touring thorugh Switzerland, Austria, and visiting French Riviera, Barcelona & Amsterdam.
 
Any advice for a dreamer who’s 21 months away from travel?  Thanks! Have a good one

Cheers


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Try and figure out a general itinerary.  Your question is not the vaguest of seen, but I think you still need some research to do.  “Italy” is large and has lots to see, and on your Greece thread, the fact that you only mentioned Athens and Mykonos is a give-away that you need some more reading/research to do (those are the two places in Greece everyone names).  I don’t mean it in a bad way, but you have lots of time to plan.  Take advantage of that.  Lurk around Eurotrip, use the search function.  Browsed some travel books.  See if there’s pictures of specific places that catch your eye.  Surf the net, see what you come up with. [Smile]

Also, figure out how to work in Greece and Turkey into this itinerary -no need for a separate thread.  It’s all a single trip.


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Cheers for that
I’ve picked out particular cities for most countries, just didn’t want to rabbit on too much and bore everyone!  With Greece we’re only planning to do the islands, and really whichever ones are easiet to travel to on the way to Turkey but I’ll have a look around here and reaserch more (I’ve looked into Samos a while back)
 
With Italy we’re looking at Florence as the #1 priority, along with Venice, Rome (incl. Vatican), run through Pisa and after reading a friend’s blog this morning the Cinque Terre looks really nice, on the way to Nice where I’d like to day trip to Monaco and Cannes
 
Thanks again and I’ll take a look around this space…more advice from anyone is always appreciated

Cheers


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Since when do Aussie’s plan anything?


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how do you know about the Eurovision Contest, assuming you live in Australia


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It’s covered in the media…every station does a news piece every year and the multicultural broadcaster shows the semi-final and the final…it’s a great laugh!  So good and oh so bad at the same time Smile
They don’t cover it in NZ?
Any more details/thoughts on the contest re tickets etc. would be great
 
And fair call heavydrinker we’re pretty laid back, I’m definitely guilty as charged, but dancing around a half thought out plan is better than having no idea at all…I think that’s the go

Cheers


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Eurovision isn’t covered in the US either.
 

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ORIGINAL: aussie09

Cheers for that
I’ve picked out particular cities for most countries, just didn’t want to rabbit on too much and bore everyone!

 
Then you’re already on the right track.  Try putting together a general itinerary.  It’s easier for us to take apart and reconstruct it, rather than suggest you a whole new one from scratch.  I’ve done that before for people, but never for such a large area. 
 
Quote:
ORIGINAL: aussie09
With Greece we’re only planning to do the islands, and really whichever ones are easiet to travel to on the way to Turkey but I’ll have a look around here and reaserch more (I’ve looked into Samos a while back)

 
Samos is beautifulvery well-known to European tourists, and I think the island may have ferry connections to Turkey, but I’m not sure.  One thing you need to realize about Greece is that “the islands” are broken down into smaller island chains.  Mykonos, Santorini, Paros, Naxos, Syros, Andros, and all the islands that form a cluster immediately southeast of Athens, those are the Cyclades Island chain, and their administrative center is the island of Syros (and these are the islands mostly with those famous whitewashed houses).  Ferries within this chain are plentiful, but getting from this chain to the Dodecanese Islands (further southeast, includes Rhodes, Kos, Patmos, etc), you can’t ferry there from any Cycladic Island.  Then there’s the “Northeast Aegean Islans” (Includes Samos, which is near the Dodecanese), Crete (a region in and of itself), and the Ionian Islands (which are west of the mainland, and where I suggest you make a stop if you’re arriving in Greece from Italy by ferry).  So, keep this in mind, as it might not be possible to go directly from island A to island B, depending on the islands you’ve picked.  I know Mykonos is one of the few places in Greece that are well-known outside of Europe (USA, Canada, Australia, etc…), but don’t fret it if you can’t make it there; there’s so much more to Greece.

Quote:
ORIGINAL: aussie09
With Italy we’re looking at Florence as the #1 priority, along with Venice, Rome (incl. Vatican), run through Pisa and after reading a friend’s blog this morning the Cinque Terre looks really nice, on the way to Nice where I’d like to day trip to Monaco and Cannes

 
Your Italy itinerary sounds good; you’re covering the basics.  Pisa and Florence are both in Tuscany region (Toscana).  Cinque Terre is in the southernmost part of Liguria region, near Tuscany.  All of these can be a mini-itinerary within the itinerary.  Maybe stay in Florence and explore the rest of the region as day-trips, then hop on over to a Cinque Terre town for a few days, base yourself there, and explore the otehr CT towns as day trips as well.  I think that, in addition to power-sightseeing in Venice and Rome, that a more relaxed mini-vacation in the Tuscany-Luguria area is ideal.
 
Monaco: you’re not missing much, unless you have money, a yacht, you love to gamble, and you wear a red scarf inside your shirt collar.  There’s plenty more towns on the Côte d’Azur that will probably suit you MUCH better, trust me.  Like Antibes/Juan-les-Pins, or Cannes, or Menton…  I have written quite a bit about the Côte d’Azur and southern France, and from memory, Cil has too, and I think Basie too.  And I’m sure I’ve forgotten a name or two.
 
Any questions on Spain?


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Wow.  Awesome.  Thanks!!
 
Not really looking at exploring Spain…we do have a particular mission in Barcelona so will hit there after our French Riviera sojourn, then may catch a flight back to Frankfurt or Prague depending on our final itinerary.
 
I’m having a ball daydreaming about this trip Smile

Cheers


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  I couldn’t agree more with Luv_the _Beach!  In my opinion, a mistake that’s often made is that people want to get between Nice and Barcelona as fast as possible, and end up missing lots between. For example, you might want to see Marseille, Aix-en-Provence, Arles, Nimes, Caracassonne, Montpellier, and Collioure. In your case, you’ll have plenty of time to do some reading about these places, and decide which to see.
 Years ago, before Rick Steves wrote about the area, travelers would go right past Cinque Terre, while now it’s become almost a ritual to go there—- and some of the charm must inevitably get lost when there are swarms of tourists there. Collioure, in France (just north of the border between Spain and France) is a charming village with a small rail station right on the rail line that connects Nice with Barcelona (via Perpignan), and it’s fairly easy to stop just for a few hours, yet few tourists have ever heard of it, and go past as fast as possible, just as earlier tourists shot past Cinque Terre!
   In other regions of France, there are dozens of small cities/ towns that are very picuresque and interesting. Obviously, you can’t see everyplace during a single trip but, as your ideas become clearer, keep in mind the possiblity of seeing smaller places in France (and elsewhere in Europe, too)!


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It’s never too early to start planning… the earlier the
more fun it is.

If you’ve seen the TV series Prison Break you can plan to that depth
and it keeps you occupied… there will never be a spare minute.

Immerse yourselves.

I had a series of photocopied internet maps of varying scale with routes
highlighted, camp sites… info of places nearby of interest.. images etc…

There really isn’t any need to waste money on guidebooks when you can
make you own and arm yourself with as much data and factoids as a you can.

It’s fun, researching and buying backpacks, hiking boots, tents, clothing.

Watch movies at weekends filmed in the destinations you’ll be going to, take notes to see
how the place has changed, what’s new attractions and features.

Read history books on Rome and Ancient Greece etc etc!

If you’re a party animal, swot up on the local beverages… use the internet to check the club, bars
and prices so you don;t waste time going to the wrong places…. inform yourself.

Language CDs when you travel to work on the bus or the car

You can basically build the excitment from day one and have fun and be educated


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Quote:
ORIGINAL: aussie09

after our French Riviera sojourn, then may catch a flight back to Frankfurt or Prague depending on our final itinerary.

I’m having a ball daydreaming about this trip Smile


I’ve travelled that route Barca to Prague… pretty much sorted out the flight in a barca travel agents office… seamless.

Stop daydreaming and start learning, planning and educating yourself


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Quote:
ORIGINAL: Basie

  I couldn’t agree more with Luv_the _Beach!  In my opinion, a mistake that’s often made is that people want to get between Nice and Barcelona as fast as possible, and end up missing lots between. For example, you might want to see Marseille, Aix-en-Provence, Arles, Nimes, Caracassonne, Montpellier, and Collioure. In your case, you’ll have plenty of time to do some reading about these places, and decide which to see.
Years ago, before Rick Steves wrote about the area, travelers would go right past Cinque Terre, while now it’s become almost a ritual to go there—- and some of the charm must inevitably get lost when there are swarms of tourists there. Collioure, in France (just north of the border between Spain and France) is a charming village with a small rail station right on the rail line that connects Nice with Barcelona (via Perpignan), and it’s fairly easy to stop just for a few hours, yet few tourists have ever heard of it, and go past as fast as possible, just as earlier tourists shot past Cinque Terre!
  In other regions of France, there are dozens of small cities/ towns that are very picuresque and interesting. Obviously, you can’t see everyplace during a single trip but, as your ideas become clearer, keep in mind the possiblity of seeing smaller places in France (and elsewhere in Europe, too)!

Spot on, Basie.
People skip that southeast area of France all the time. (Further inland is Toulouse—a lovely small city.)
And it’s funny, Rick Steves doesn’t seem to like this region quite as much as he liked the Cinque Terre, so maybe it won’t be
overrun as fast. It’s not as if it is untouristed now, but to me it is still unspoiled.
And as you say, there are all sorts of small cities and towns just as charming.


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Awesome.  How easy to use is the transport between Nice & Barca?  Looking into an extra stop or two along the way but it’s something we may do at our own leisure.
 
Can anyone pass on thoughts on how worthwile it is travelling to places like Corsica? Andorra?
 
(Also working on a solid week-plus Swiss itinerary that I’ll chuck on here soon)
Thanks!!

Cheers


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I can’t stand Rick Steeves.

Aussie,

Barcelona-Nice:

I looked online and couldn’t find direct trains from Barcelona to Nice; they all seem to stop at Montpellier.  Regardless, check out any of the other towns on (or near) France’s Mediterrean coast that Basie, Cil, and I have brought up.  Montpellier is a great town to break up your trip, but for a first-timer to France, I usually suggest towns like Arles, Nîmes, Avignon, etc.  You’ll probably be doing something like Barcelona (França station) change trains in Montpellier, off to Nîmes or Arles.  And then from there to Nice where you can base yourself and check out neighboring towns; or base yourself in a different town on Côte d’ Azur, and make Nice one of your daytrips.

Andorra:

Personally I wouldn’t have suggested Andorra.  Don’t take me wrong, it’s a beautiful place (a country, actually)..so if you really want to visit, then yeah, work it into the itinerary.  It’s a great mountainous place, so if you want to work some mountains/Pyrenees into the itinerary, then give it a go!! 

Corsica:

Since it’s your first time to France, I think you’ll get a great French Mediterranean experience on the mainland.  Corsica is a beautiful place, but will be a little time consuming from your original itinerary, thus you’ll have to sacrifice some of the other destinations if your time is limited.  Besides that, it’s a beautiful island, and unique of course.


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> I can’t stand Rick Steeves.
 
That’s worthy of another thread, but I’d be curious to hear why. I have mixed feelings about Rick Steves.


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I think Rick Steves has some good suggestions, but you have to sort through his recomendations to determine which ones are good. A number of places such as the cinque terre have been spoiled (in some people’s opinion) because of Rick. I saw him in person when he came to town to give a presentation, and I can’t say I picked up on any specific tips to use for future trips.  I found he really pushed his books and dvds. He is running a business after all.


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Cheers.  Recently I was of the mind of just hopping from town to town and hostel to hostel, but the more I read and think about it I’m realising that settling down in one town is the way to go, and make day trips.  For piece of mind, remembering I’ll be tripping for 3 months, it’s probably better to base a few days to a week in one town as opposed to seeing one place, moving a couple of hundred kms up the road for the next night.  

For example staying in Florence for a week, and depending on how we felt, wake up on the Tuesday and say “Let’s catch the train to Venice”. This’d be better than staying 2 days in Venice, 2 days in Florence, and shifting beds all the time?  I hope in that ramble I’ve made my point?

This being said, I’ll share a rough Swiss itinerary that’s pretty nomadic, and see what you think? Are the towns worthwhile? Should I stay longer in any of them or skip them altogether? This is planned for May/early June.

1. Start in Geneva and get out as soon as I can, spend the day in Lausanne, and stay the night in Montreaux
2. Day trip to Sion & Val d’Herens, maybe see some cow fights? (intriguing)
3. Move on to Bern, checking out Gruyeres on the way.  I like the look of Bern as a city
4. Train to Interlaken, spending an hour or so in Thun.
5. Stay 2 or 3 nights in this area…definitely with a return train ride around Murren & Gimmelwald.  Not sure which town to base in but isn’t that Mountain Hostel in Gimmelwald fantastic? Worth staying here over Interlaken??

Let’s say day 8.  On to Lucerne via Brenz & Meiringen.
9. To Zurich.
10.  St. Gallen & Appenzell.  (Leichtenstein???)
11.  North to the lake then across to Freiburg Germany to start the next adventure.  (Or should I visit Basel first???)


Is this too long? Are there days I can cut out? I do wanna check out the country lifestyle along with the alpine and city living so I figure this is a good cross section, but am also wary that Switzerland is slightly more expensive than most other parts of Europe.  Thanks so much for your help and advice.

Cheers


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Hi there
My name is Jay and I am swiss and live in Zürich.
I took a look at your swiss itinerary and here are some thoughts that you might take into concideration:
1. Montreux is VERY expensive. And it os actually not far from Lausanne, why not spending half a day in Montreux and the evening in Lausanne. It will be much cheaper and Lausanne is really great.
Hostel: http://www.youthhost… ->Lausanne
The hostel in Lausanne is really great plus it is situated in Ouchy (at the lake).
2. Sion to be honest I’d say skip it. You’ll see enough cows in the mountains around Berne. Plus you could use this day for another day in Montreux/Lausanne. Or you could even take the boat in Lausanne to Evian in France (where the Evian water comes from) its a cute little town.
3. Bern, definitaly worth the trip. Make sure you get to see the “Bundeshaus”.
4. Interlaken, you will love it. All tourists AND swiss ppl love it! Very traditional. Try to eat swiss food here, Fondue or Raclette. Try to find a hotel or hostel outside Interlake though, otherwise you’ll pay far too much.
5.-7. First of all it’s GRINDELWALD not Grimmelwald. hehe Same as Interlaken, you will love it, very traditional.
8. Lucerne, BEAUTIFUL city. Try staying at a hostel as well, they have good ones.
Hostel: http://www.youthhost… ->Luzern
9. Zurich, my home.
If you need a private tourguide let me know, I love showing off “my” city.
Hostel: http://www.youthhost… ->Zürich
10. St. Gallen isn’t really something you would want to see, nothing special at all. Appenzell as well actually. You would have seen enough very traditional stuff in Grindelwald and Interlaken. Maybe you could use this day to make a trip on the lake Zurich by boat. Or if you want to see something else you take the train up to Davos or St. Moritz (about 3-4 hours trainride) and see something in Graubünden.

I hope these informations are of any use to you. If you have any questions about Switzerland, let me know.


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Thanks heaps for that!
Wow it’s been a long time since I’ve been to this forum.  I just moved from SE Australia to Darwin at the very top…been big! Now I can catch up on my Eurotrip ambitions again Smile
 
Any more adivce about Switzerland/France/Germany for a 3 month trip in Spring?
 
Thankyou

Cheers


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There is a much less known town called Gimmelwald that is on the opposite side of the valley that Grindelwald is on.

Gimmelwald is the town with the Mountain Hostel run by Petra. I highly recommend it. It is a great starting point for hikes – Shilthorn is a great hike & very rewarding. I caution you though; this is a mellow, laid back place. It isn’t really a party atmosphere that some of the Interlaken hostels are known for.

Enjoy!!


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Aussie and Jaysta,
 
You are right Aussie  it is GIMMELWALD    the Grindalwald is a very touristy area.
 
Walters at Gimmelwald is super and he is a pretty good cook  However, the cost to go up and down can run into $ over a period of time so you are better to plan a one   few day stop.  Recommend…... for sure
 
I am also in the process of planning a 1-2 year trip of travelling throughout the remainder of Europe I have not seen in addition to other parts of Asia and the Middle East, Africa – anything on that side of the world.  We are leaving in 2009 February probably.  Have been fortunate to have travelled throughout Europe and North Africa area in the 60’s for over six months and many trips since – not your 5 star type trips.  Glad to tell you what I know – any questions just ask.
\Taking a group of 8 throughout Germany, Austria, Holland Scandinavia in 2008 for 6-8 weeks.    I’m not an agent, just can satisfy the wanderlust.
 
Have already begun to book and everything for next May only because it involves 8 of us.  The around-the-world trip will be mostly spontaneous except for 2 months in Turkiye and one month in Greece.
 


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Alright. We know Russia’s won Eurovision, a lot of planning time has passed and a general, very long itinierary is ready for criticism Smile Any thoughts, advice, suggestions of particular events to catch, chances to meet up…anything is welcome!

Visiting a bit of Asia then landing in Istanbul, in time for ANZAC Day festivities on April 25th.
Late April: Prague and Czech Republic for app. 12 days. Have distant family to hang out with in Litmosyl area.

Early May: Fly to St. Petersburg for 2/3 days, overnight train to Moscow
Spend Eurovision week there! Visit Red Square, Kremlin etc.
May 17th ish: Fly to Budapest, 2/3 days.
Train to Vienna, 2/3 days

Munich. Spend roughly 2 weeks throughout southern half of Germany covering Romantic Road, Neuschwaenstein, Bergkirchweih Festival, Rock-im-Park, Black Forest etc.

Train through Basel to Bern, on to Gimmelwald Mountain Hostel for 2/3 days.
Train to Venice, use Busabout to venture through Rome, Florence, Cinque Terre for a solid 2 weeks

Continue through French Riviera, Montpellier and Barcelona, staying there for around 5 days. Keen to see Montserrat, best coastal towns, possibly Andorra.
Possibly go through rest of Spain inc. Valencia, Madrid, San Sebastian…up to Paris.

Good few days here, inc. all the cliche stuff, day trip to WWII sites. Depending on funds and mood at the time, cross the channel to UK?
UK or not, we’ll go from Paris over to Benelux for 10-14 days. Brugges, Liege, Amsterdam, Utrecht, Zaansee Schans, possibly across the dam to Groningen?? Also possible day trip to Luxembourg, mood dependant.

We’ll probably get on Busabout from Amsterdam across to Berlin, couple of days, on to Prague again for a return trip home via Vietnam to see my sister-in-law.

Sound like a good solid 3 months of backpackin’? Again any suggestions on inclusions/exclusions would be great. Thanks heaps.

Cheers


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Well it looks like you’ve come a long way from your original post, haha… good job I’m envious that you’ll actually be able to have this long to travel. What is it with Aussies and being able to take off a million days at a time? Wink

I guess a few things I’d mention perhaps trying to see, since you’ll be there so long anyway:

See if you can’t work in a day or three for the cruise down the Rhine. I assume you’ll be getting a Eurail global pass or equivalent, in which case the cruise itself is free, and there’s a lot of unique little towns along the way you can stop and spend the day in, sleep there, etc…also a lot of castles along the Rhine to gawk at! I really enjoyed myself there. You can start in Cologne, which is really close to the Benelux region, since you’re going to be there. Technically speaking you could probably get on the cruise in Cologne or Dusseldorf and ride it to at least Mainz (near Frankfurt); not sure if you can ride upriver any further than that, but I wouldn’t doubt it. I just did the journey myself between Mainz and Koblenz, where most of the castles are. But yeah there are a ton of little towns you can stop in like, Bacharach, Bingen, Lorch, Saint Goar, Boppard, etc etc etc. Like I said, I highly recommend it Smile Germany is quite a diverse country (it wasn’t even a “country” in the modern sense until the 1870s) so each region really has its own identity; you’ll find that the Rhineland almost feels like a different country altogether from southern Germany!

Another thing I’d mention is, why not try spending a bit more time in Switzerland?... it’s a really interesting place, and TONS of different cultures in one little country. I believe there are FOUR official languages spoken, and even if people speak the same language, sometimes they don’t even understand eachother from one valley to the next. Spending time in Graubunden area, Ticino, Zurich, and Neuchatel, you’d almost swear you were in four different countries.

If you’re going to be in Prague, I’d recommend maybe trying to get to Dresden, Germany on your way in or out. It’s only a little more than 2hrs away, and a beautiful old city that the Allies firebombed flat at the end of WWII, but has been subsequently rebuilt with precision accuracy. I loved it there. It’s worth at least a day-trip… and nearby is the Sächsische Schweiz (http://en.wikipedia….) national park with really neat rock formations and stuff, good for a hike.

Another thing, if you’re thinking of spending a few days in Gimmelwald, CH, it would be criminal not to reccomend you staying in Hallstatt, Austria (http://wikitravel.or…) for a few days. It’s only a couple hours’ journey from Salzburg or Vienna, and one of the most tranquil places I’ve ever been. It’s just a village on the edge of a lake really, and it can get a bit touristy, but most of them leave by 5pm and then you’re all by yourself with the locals, basically. It’s great. Lots of neat little restaurants and stuff, and not to mention if you walk about 10 minutes in any direction you’re in the woods literally completely alone. If you’re into mountaineering too there’s all sorts of stuff you can do up in the mountains there. So awesome…. I wish I was there right now

Anyway, just some suggestions, take it with a grain of salt, as only YOU know what YOU are most interested in Smile


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Thanks for that Feicht. I’ll probably stop at Dresden at the end on my way from Berlin back to Prague, thanks for the recommendation.
I originally planned to spend a whole lot longer in Switzerland but it sort of fell out of the plan…I’ll have another think. I’m also wary that it’s a little pricey.
On another point, what do people think about Bratislava? Worth a half day stop over on the train from Budapest to Vienna? And what are thoughts on NE rural area of The Netherlands?

Cheers


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Aussie,

By now you’ve pretty much named every city, town, village, and settlement in Europe with a population over 5.


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Eurotrip Points: 45
Joined: 10/07/2007

Ahhhhh come on there’s heaps I haven’t mentioned
So…about Moldova….....Wink

Cheers