I think 3 weeks would be tough to cover both northern and southern Europe and/or 2 different types of vacation.

However, there are some options that might help with the dilemma…

1. An open jaw flight — into Amsterdam, out of Rome, for example, to avoid losing a day or two backtracking to your arrival city.

2. Two mini-trips, one centered around one or two classic tourist destinations in northern Europe and one centered around a coastal city in Southern Europe with a flight between.

3. There’s a lot of coastline in Europe and there are a number of resort areas on lakes. There are “beaches” everywhere, just not the tropical beaches that come to mind for Americans. Actually, if you’re looking for tropical paradise, most European beaches will be a disappointment. Venice offers standard tourist attraction, plus the Lido and plenty of coastline and lake resorts within a couple of hours by train. The Dutch go to the beach from Amsterdam….

You need to think carefully about this trip and about a decision to not split up. Travel is 24/7 togetherness — often in very tight quarters. It is far more intense and taxing on relationships than being best friends, roommates — or even married. I’m guessing the veterans here will bet that a group of 4 will no longer be close friends by the end of the trip — even if you were in perfect agreement about “what kind of trip” when you left home.

Hey thanks oldlady. Makes some sense. About splitting up though I don’t know I have travelled with people in the close quarters and I personally have no troubles but some I’ve been with do. So I see where your coming from i am rather independent and would be fine with splitting up but i think the group would want to stay together out of necessity. And I’m not looking for a tropical paradise as I am in Phoenix which is close enough to South America and the Gulf of Mexico which are both very beautiful but I am looking forward to the rocky craigs of Greece and some amazing cliff jumping. Now come to think of it we probably will have to split up. Well we still have a lot of planning to do and I will definitely bring up the split. Thank you again lady thats old.

Oldlady gives excellent advice. I agree that the open jaw could help a lot.
Many years ago we took a three week taste of Europe trip with our older kid; we flew into London, went to Ireland, France, northern Italy and flew home from Rome. Following the coast from France through northern Italy was nice.
The beaches in Greece are gorgeous, there are some nice cliffs on Corfu, but hopefully you are traveling during warm weather season because Greece is not a tropical country.

Yeah I’m heading out in the summer and I think the average for western Greece is like 82 so it should be ok. What was your favorite part about travelling along the coast Cil? Best place? Did you do any swimming or did you go off season.

Greece is very difficult to work into a short time frame because you spend a full day getting to Greece and often another full day getting from Athens (or where ever you arrive in Greece) to any place you really want to visit in Greece. Even with an open jaw out of Athens you’ll burns another day getting to your flight home.

I don’t see any way to mesh cliff diving in Greece with your friends’ desire to visit the classic tourist destinations in Europe in three weeks. Any way you could do a week by yourself on either end of your group trip?

That is becoming more and more appealing but I’m still trying to talk them into seeing my way I don’t know though.

Why not try the Mediterranean coast of Italy or France? Here’s a French Riviera cliff diving story for you:
http://www.e-margina…

it sounds to me that you may have dependent personality disorder!you may want to do some research on it!

Austifarian:

On your two friends who have never been to Europe before: they should be thankful that they have 2 friends who are experienced travelers, and they should suck it up and go wherever you wanna go. After all, wherever they go will be new to them, and they are following you around. I’m not saying that you and the other experienced friend shouldn’t try in any way to accomodate some of the things that the inexperienced friends want to do…definitely take some of their wants into consideration. But let them know that they should stop treating this trip like a once-in-a-lifetime experience. After all, you’re living proof that people do come back. Let them understand that this trip they are taking will give them basic international experience and hopefully serve as a springboard to a lifetime of international travel on their own to Europe, Asia, South America, South Pacific, wherever

On Southern Europe: If you decide to stick out in the South, let me know if I can help with suggestions. As Cil pointed out, I highly suggest summertime for the type of vacation that you’re looking for.

Now that’s a cool story!

Man that stuff is really annoying. My friend was kinda like that on our trip this summer. It’s cool to be able to sit back and appreciate that you’re in Europe, but its kind of silly if you keep walking around telling yourself you’ll never come back, so you better live it up while you’re there. I’ve always treated it like, if you want to come back, you will. Sure travel is expensive, but EVERYTHING is…. you know, new stereos, nice flat screen televisions, nicotene addictions, etc Make do with out some of this crap, and whaddya know, you can actually afford to take trips.

Hey thanks a bunch guys I will definitely bring that up.