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89 replies
tronxz28
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1 .- "And I guess that isn’t true for Mexico right? "

At least we dont pretend to be the judge of other nations and their customs and traditions. Also we do not go to other places to make wars. Finally, if we might not know a lot about other countries at least we are very friendly people with foreigners. I have seen american tourists in several places in Mexico and even in a different country they are still rude.

2.- "And obvious ignorance on the part of Mexico of where that image originated. Maybe they ought to try and understand the outside world."

It is not the fault of Mexico that a minority group in the USA cannot overcome their traumas and they feel that memin penguin was created or it represents an offense for them. You have been the one giving those values to that image, not us. It also seems that you(as a group) are very sensitive and everything offends u. For us is as surprinsing that u tell us that memin pinguin offends u as that our chocolate cakes offend u. We are not even thinking about u. Besides, you are mentioning about understanding the outside world ????? Who were the ones that went to war against Irak against the majority of nations opinions and official voting in the UN ? I do not know what can be more disrecpful and cruel than kill innocent women and children for oil. Sorry, for freedom.

3.- "Of course not! How many people of African descent are in Mexico?"

Not many, but the few understand that it is just a joke like many more characters in mexico. We usually try to laugh about our problems and not cry about them. Besides, should not you be more worried about the KKK groups inside the USA. A stamp after all will not do anything to u but those people, who knows.

4.- "Well your president seems to want to meddle in our matters, so don’t talk too much. Telling us that we must hand out drivers licenses and take in illegal aliens from Mexico, since he doesn’t want to take care of them. He’s up here at least once a month pushing for a guest worker program which Americans overhwhelmingly oppose."

What a great president Vicente Fox is. He can go over there and tell the USA what to do. Amazing. The only difference is that our president negotiates, but the USA just wants to impose. Not only Mexico suffers from that but a lot more countries, ask Panama, El Salvador, Colombia, Vietnam, Korea, Cuba … the list goes on and on.

5.- "Is speedy gonzalez on a US stamp?"

What did u not mention that before ????? so what really offends u is that memin penguin is on a stamp, so it would not matter that memin penguin is in cartoons, or a newspaper or comics, or a movie, it is just the fact that it is on a stamp. No, speedy gonzalez is not a stamp. Just on a cartoon that was aired often on TV. And but the way I actually like speedy gonzalez, it does not offend me… Andale, Andale Smile

6 .- Who is "they"? Generalizing a bit aren’t you?

You r totally correct. African American people that have some traumas and also too much time to spend. Sorry, let me correct that one. Not African American. America is a continent not a country so I havent heard that black people from Colombia, Peru or Brazil are complaining so better say: People from African roots that their nation is the USA.

7.- "We know where the image comes from. And if you do as well, and understand the context in which it was created, I don’t know why you support it."

I would be against group of people in mexico showing affection for the KKK, or wearing swastikas or any other demostration of that type but not for something like a magazine character that has been around more time than u have been alive.

8.- "Yeah, the US stole territory, which Mexico itself stole from Chumash Indians. Nice try"

Then the territory belongs to them ??? then where is the illegal immigration ? A lot of mexicans descent directly from those groups of indios. Some are a mix of races and some more are still almost pure race. Then we are just going back to our land and claiming what rightfully belong to us. Who are the aliens then and the illigal on those lands ??

9.- "If your government was all that worried about the people risking their lives crossing here, they’d be doing something for them. Their policy is to send them here because they don’t want to deal them. And I don’t know why you consider defending our border to be "racist". I guess it’s also racist that you guys defend your own southern border from Central American illegals."

It worries not only for the ones crossing but the ones that already crossed and are shot in Arizona and more places. This is the part that it does not make sense. U consider a stamp to be racist but hunting human beings is just ok ? all in good fun :S yeeiii cowboy. Also let me tell u that in immigration as well as in drugs the root of the problem is not in Mexico. Who are the ones offering a lot of jobs to illigal inmmigrants? Who are the ones that benefit more by paying what u want to pay and not giving any social benefit. Do u think that if there were no jobs illegal inmmigration will continue? How do u think that the rest of the people of the USA can continue to have a high standard of living. By the way, now that I also mentioned. If the USA would not have such a have demand of drugs Mexico will not have this problem with narcotrafic so please do us a favor and stop consuming all those drugs.

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quote:
At least we dont pretend to be the judge of other nations and their customs and traditions. Also we do not go to other places to make wars.

Neither does Luxembourg. But that isn’t because Mexico is an inherantly more peaceful nation, it’s because they don’t have the military infrastructure to do such. All nations that rise to the top use military power abroad, it has always happened. I have no doubt that your nation would do the same if it had the power to do so.

quote:
Finally, if we might not know a lot about other countries at least we are very friendly people with foreigners. I have seen american tourists in several places in Mexico and even in a different country they are still rude.

Look, I’m not going to get into a tit for tat over which country’s tourist are more rude, because it’s subjective and pointless. I’ve met rude and friendly Americans abroad. I’ve also been ripped off for money by cops in Mexico, does that balance things out?

quote:
2.-
It is not the fault of Mexico that a minority group in the USA cannot overcome their traumas and they feel that memin penguin was created or it represents an offense for them. You have been the one giving those values to that image, not us. It also seems that you(as a group) are very sensitive and everything offends u. For us is as surprinsing that u tell us that memin pinguin offends u as that our chocolate cakes offend u. We are not even thinking about u. Besides, you are mentioning about understanding the outside world ????? Who were the ones that went to war against Irak against the majority of nations opinions and official voting in the UN ? I do not know what can be more disrecpful and cruel than kill innocent women and children for oil. Sorry, for freedom.

Save Iraq for another discussion thread, as it has nothing to do with the topic of racist imagery in Mexico. But nice try at a red herring.

quote:
Not many, but the few understand that it is just a joke like many more characters in mexico. We usually try to laugh about our problems and not cry about them. Besides, should not you be more worried about the KKK groups inside the USA. A stamp after all will not do anything to u but those people, who knows.

The KKK is pretty much dead. The remaining few live in rural areas mostly in the south and stay to themselves.

quote:
What a great president Vicente Fox is. He can go over there and tell the USA what to do. Amazing. The only difference is that our president negotiates, but the USA just wants to impose. Not only Mexico suffers from that but a lot more countries, ask Panama, El Salvador, Colombia, Vietnam, Korea, Cuba … the list goes on and on.

Now Mexico "suffers" because of the US. And I thought we were the victimologists.

quote:
What did u not mention that before ????? so what really offends u is that memin penguin is on a stamp, so it would not matter that memin penguin is in cartoons, or a newspaper or comics, or a movie, it is just the fact that it is on a stamp.

I don’t expect or want Mexico or any nation to pass a law making racist images illegal. I think people should have the right to their attitudes if they so choose, stupid as it may be to have those attitudes. It’s another thing though for the government to sanction such imagery. Look, I’m not telling anyone down there what to do, I’m simply expressing an outside opinion of how that stamp looks when the envelope arrives in the US. You guys can do whatever you want. Many in Mexico probably don’t even know that the sambo image is considered deeply offensive by tens of millions of people just to their north. And there’s nothing wrong with me simply bringing it up. If you guys still choose to laugh it off, then that’s your choice. You see, the stamp isn’t really the issue here, the stamp is a catalyst that brought up a deeper issue, and that is the difference in the way the US and Mexico treat racial matters.

quote: No, speedy gonzalez is not a stamp. Just on a cartoon that was aired often on TV. And but the way I actually like speedy gonzalez, it does not offend me… Andale, Andale Smile

Speedy Gonzalez is simply a mouse from Mexico. Not intended to be any caricature of human beings from Mexico. He’s no more inherantly offensive than Mickey Mouse being a representative of Americans. There’s no comparison to the sambo cartoon. I know you probably think I’m just an arrogant American, but trust me on this, there is no comparison.

quote:
8.- "Yeah, the US stole territory, which Mexico itself stole from Chumash Indians. Nice try"

Then the territory belongs to them ??? then where is the illegal immigration ? A lot of mexicans descent directly from those groups of indios. Some are a mix of races and some more are still almost pure race. Then we are just going back to our land and claiming what rightfully belong to us. Who are the aliens then and the illigal on those lands ??

No, if the land somehow belonged to the Native Americans, then it would be the descendants of tribes living in here, such as Navajos, Churmash, Hopis and such. Not to descendants of Indians living down in Mexico who come from different tribes. Of course nobody is giving anything "back" to anyone, so the whole debate is moot. Azteks took land from other Indians, conquest has happened since the dawn of time. Trying to figure out what land "rightfully" belongs to who is a waste of time. If the southwest US were still Mexico, then illegals would be crossing into Oregon instead of California.

quote:
It worries not only for the ones crossing but the ones that already crossed and are shot in Arizona and more places. This is the part that it does not make sense. U consider a stamp to be racist but hunting human beings is just ok ?

The minuteman militia(I assume that’s who you’re talking about) has not shot any Mexicans. That’s simply untrue. If I am wrong, then please find one news article link showing that the Minutemen shot Mexicans.

quote:
Who are the ones offering a lot of jobs to illigal inmmigrants?

The wealthy who only care about money. But they don’t represent me or most Americans, they are basically traitors as far as I’m concerned. They don’t want to pay Americans decent wages so they import cheap labor. They only benefit themselves, not the country. I have nothing against the Mexicans workers themselves, but don’t like this whole system of going about it. Bush and Fox are partners in this. Vicente has a huge pool of desperate people willing to work on the cheap. He wants them up here so that he doesn’t have to deal with him, plus they sent back billions per year into Mexico’s economy. so it’s in his vital interest to keep them coming up here. And it’s also the big businesses here who also want them coming so that they can cut wages and benefits down that they would otherwise being paying much more to an American. So they are the perfect partners. Bush wants them here and Fox wants them here, even though most Americans are staunchly opposed to illegal immigration.

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quote:
Speedy Gonzalez is simply a mouse from Mexico. Not intended to be any caricature of human beings from Mexico. He’s no more inherantly offensive than Mickey Mouse being a representative of Americans. There’s no comparison to the sambo cartoon. I know you probably think I’m just an arrogant American, but trust me on this, there is no comparison.

There is a comparison. You don’t see Speedy Gonzalez as ofensive because there is nothing in that cartoon that offends you, but if you were mexican and the US came up with a stamp with Speedy Gonzalez, you’d be discussing a topic called "racist American stamps".

I do advise you, read Memin Pinguin.

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In support of Modulis, he was just asking what the reaction was to those Mexican stamps.
I haven’t heard of the damn things but I can imagine the controversy, and moreso how it’s reported by those brain-dead news ‘anchors’ on the LA local stations.

Modulis isn’t into victim card politics usually or hysterical reactions to caricatures as far as I know so cut him some slack. He’s just talking about it.

About national identity in Mexico, isn’t the idea of La Raza (The Race) that the Europeans and the Indians (or should I say Native Americans in case any survived smallpox) intermingled and created La Raza, the glorious race that makes up Mexico today. The fact that about 5% of Mexico’s blood is African has been sort of airbrushed from Mexico’s history books and national consciousness.

http://www.upi.com/v…

I wouldn’t pass much remarks on the stamps but if there’s a story in Mexico’s attitude to black people/ Africans, it’s more in the national origin story of modern Mexico.

Don’t worry about Mexican immigration either Modulis. Every dog has his day. Let’s see how long Mexifornia lasts before the next demographic wave changes it again. It’d be funny to hear Mexicans in California complaining about how all the Chinese are taking over, or Nigerians or whatever group gains the demographic upper-hand next (in the southwestern US).

I can understand the Mexicans on this forum not liking the way America sees Mexicans. Most people think of them as the peasants that cross into the US. I met a lot of middle-class Mexicans backpacking last summer. They’re not the ones that George W. and his business class want to come in and clean toilets and for $3 an hour.

Anyway, re. something Positiveman mentioned earlier-I don’t really want to change topic because it’s not my thread but on ‘black on white crime’, the FBI in the US and various other law enforcement agencies publish data on this. It’s probably one of the most unreported stories in our PC obsessed media-for various reasons- but the figures read like an out and out race war against whites.
The statistics for violent crimes committed by non-whites against Whitey are staggering. If it’s called ‘racist’ to bring this up, well, I couldn’t care less. I’m just mentioning it.

I expect some people won’t be able to accept the crime statement so I’ll post some official links.
I know Positiveman, at least, will read them. It might help him to decide which cities he’s least likely to get mugged/stabbed/shot/buggered in…

But to bring it back to La Raza…

"Nevertheless, the official ideology of Mexico has been that the Mexicans are simply a "mestizo" people — a mixture of Spaniards and Indians — officially referred to as "La Raza" or "The Race." Since 1928, Mexico has celebrated Oct. 12 as "The Day of The Race." On Oct. 12, 1946, Mexican politician Jos? Vasconcelos famously declared mestizos to be "the cosmic race."

http://www.upi.com/v…

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Very good article, Phil…

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When I was a kid, we used to give money at school for the ‘Black Babies’ of Africa.

Regardless of what we called them, Sambos, Africans, Negroids.. the action was still the same, we were helping them.

You can’t brand folk racist because of a stamp, the Mexican perspective has been expalined and yet Americans are still slabbering on it’s racist, grow up!

Sorry, but I’ve been to America & been told first hand by a coloured foreigner that all is not what it seems … P.C is a front… underlying attitudes still stink!

and as said, the rest of the world ins’t going to dance to the P.C tune of the USA.

Modulis, come to Scotland and you’ll be shocked by the way you’d be treated… it would put your fellow countrymen to shame.

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If this whole stupid discussion doesn’t prove that dumb-headed political correctness has killed culture once and for all, I can’t imagine what would prove it more. All our energy goes into arguing over some stupid Mexican stamp instead of actually CREATING anything. And BTW Modulis, you came rather close to implying that education automatically leads to "awareness", and I can’t help but assume that by that you mean your own PC brand of awareness.., together with the judgemental assumptions that go along with it. In any case, WHO CARES ABOUT A MEXICAN STAMP? If you’re American, black or white, and you do, get a life.

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Ok then, positiveman, go out and CREATE something. Let us know what it is when you finish.

Jboy, I will visit Scotland some day I suppose. Can’t say it’s at the top of my "must visit" list, but I’m sure I’ll eventually make my way there. I have my heart set on the mediterranean. Something about olive and cypress covered hills, good wine, red tiled villas and warm sunny skies that really calls out to me. But maybe I’ll make a little detour to Scotland…check out that Loch Ness Monster thing you guys have been yapping about for centuries now. I’ll probably need an English to Scottish translation book too.

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There is true ‘self awareness’ and then there’s ‘preconditioning’ masked as ‘relative awareness’

Don’t confuse the two.

Question what is the point of P.C if the majority feel uncomfortable with this brand of ‘correctness’…isn’t that as bad as racism ??

P.C isn’t a solution, it’s a mask!

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As Phil Hendrie pointed out, I’m not exactly Mr. PC myself. I have many politically incorrect opinions. The doctrine of PC says that language or behavior that offends some group should be best avoided. Sometimes being PC is stupid, and sometimes it’s correct, depending on the situation. It’s PC to be against wearing swastikas or burning KKK crosses on peoples lawns, but just because it’s PC doesn’t mean it’s automatically bullshit. If someone is categorically opposed to any and all use of political correctness, then they’re a moron, just as much as anyone that’s categorically in favor of all PC. It depends on the situation.

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quote:Positiveman is a fucking Cracker !

LOL
quote:

and as said, the rest of the world ins’t going to dance to the P.C tune of the USA.


I agree.
And I agree that the USA’s problems are buried rather than resolved.
quote:Modulis, come to Scotland and you’ll be shocked by the way you’d be treated… it would put your fellow countrymen to shame.

[url=‘http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=562&id=508342005’]Scotland: 70 percent increase in race-related crimes[/url]
May, 2005: Strathclyde Police has seen racist incidents go from 866 in 1999 to 1,833 in 2004, a rise of 111 per cent.
I do think Scotland is a very friendly country, but then I’m white.
About 8 years ago I met a black American tourist who definitely felt ill at ease in Ireland.
I think those anti-PC "undertones" are everywhere and in various forms.
It’s true that being politically correct can be fake and racist in itself—and sometimes it is consciousness-raising and beneficial.
No matter how one feels about it, I think it is good to at least discuss this kind of stuff. The CREATING can come after the discussion.
[url=‘http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,1522125,00.html’]Mexico’s forgotten race[/url]

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Cil,

I’d take those figures with a pinch of salt.

Immigration in the same period is up 10,000% so the figures are pretty meaningless.

Most of those attacked were English Smile

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Phil Hendrie Fan writes:

quote:About national identity in Mexico, isn’t the idea of La Raza (The Race) that the Europeans and the Indians (or should I say Native Americans in case any survived smallpox) intermingled and created La Raza, the glorious race that makes up Mexico today.
No, you shouldn’t try to group these people with "Native Americans" because the people we generally refer to as Native Americans are indigenous to the U.S. and Canada. The Aztecs in Mexico were an ancient, advanced civilization who built Pyramids and were learned in such sciences as Astronomy. They were as different from the Apaches or Comanches or the ‘Plains Indians’ as from the European invaders.

True, the Aztecs were ravaged and essentially wiped out by disease; but to equate them with Native (North) Americans is as much in error as would be to say they are the same as the Incas (Peru).

quote:It’d be funny to hear Mexicans in California complaining about how all the Chinese are taking over
It’s curious that you mention the Chinese: There is a large population of Chinese-Mexican people, mostly left over from the Chinese laborers brought in to help build the Railroads in Mexico. Unlike the U.S., where they were not generally accepted, in Mexico they were allowed to merge into the general populace rather than build ‘Chinatowns’ and remain separated
quote:"… the official ideology of Mexico has been that the Mexicans are simply a "mestizo" people — a mixture of Spaniards and Indians — officially referred to as "La Raza" or "The Race." Since 1928, Mexico has celebrated Oct. 12 as "The Day of The Race."
I think religion had something to do with that: Mexico’s Patroness, la Virgen de Guadalupe is said to have sanctioned the union and la Raza

Now, other Hispanics (Puerto Ricans, for example) are trying to piggy back onto that la Raza designation. In Spain, and in several other Latino Countries in the ‘New World’ 12 Oct is el dia de la Hispanidad

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Great thread that I’m just catching up with….

Racism is a complex, multi-headed animal that can take on the identity of white people, black people, Hispanic people, Asian people, Anglos, Jews, etc.

As such, here is a hypothetical situation that I pose to everyone:

You are walking through a part of town that you are unfamiliar with. You come to a fork in the road. The left fork is a "black" street. The right fork is a "white" street. Which fork would you take and why?

For me, I would take the right (white) fork. The reason is because sociological studies will prove—or at least suggest—that there will be less chance of petty crime on the white street. Basing my decision on basic scientific studies, does that make me a racist?

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The PC, and thus THOROUGHLY RELATIVISED "culture" we live in, makes significant, authentic artistic creation nearly impossible. PC-ness creates a cultural vacuum. Another way to put it, and I know it at first seems like a bit of a leap, is that at the core artistic, or, if you like cultural, creation, is a dictatorial, shall we say, ..fascistic act.

(Just to annoy some of you with a little bit of you know who 101.., let us say that art is the embodiment in Appolonian form of the Dionysiac will – i.e. art is the expression in tangible form of the will to power… But the essence of our PC world really is the forced denial at ALL costs of the will to power…….. This, BTW, relates directly IMO to how Hitler and Naziism are absolutely central to modern morality – absolutely NOTHING can be worse. Hitler and what he represents is the ultimate EVIL, ..and at the same time the ultimate manifestation of the will to power..)

PC, as self-eating cultural cancer(and this ridiculous discussion about supposedly racist Mexican stamps is a perfect example of that – a small, silly tumor, shall we say..), is a self-fulfilling(self-negating) system. Instead of healthily assuming our superiority and creating outward, we focus inward and criticize, criticize, criticize.. Somebody might point out here that the US is doing just that, criticiszing Mexico from a vantage point of presumed cultural superiority. But the US is just the epicenter of PC-ness, that’s all, and if anything this is just the spreading of the cancer.

So, no matter how hard I might go and try, whatever I – or any of you – could ever possibly CREATE would be subsumed and relegated into nothingness by PC RELATIVISM. As far as I can see this will only change with some major global(probably intercultural but perhaps and/or environmental) upheaval. Just wait til the towel-heads nuke New York, and Bush now will look retrospectively like a spineless head-in-the-clouds hippy..

Anybody else send money to Africa today?…

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quote:

PC, as self-eating cultural cancer(and this ridiculous discussion about supposedly racist Mexican stamps is a perfect example of that – a small, silly tumor, shall we say..

If you think it’s such a stupid discussion, then don’t participate. Problem solved. The others that do find it interesting will do just fine without you. Thanks.

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Being decent to people and treating them in a civilized manner is different to the false construct of political correctness, which hasn’t been around very long. You can trace its origins back to academia and sociologists from a few decades ago, and it’s rife with hidden agendas, disguised as fairness and compassion.

It’s basically a politically fashionable morality based on fickle left wing sensibilities. Something has to replace the old morality for societies and people who don’t have its rules of behaviour anymore.
That’s why so many people follow political correctness so devoutly. It’s their religion (and humans usually take their religion seriously enough).
It has the equivalent of ‘sins’ and ‘blasphemy’ and other aspects of a traditional religion.

As a side issue, not related to Africans in Mexico, I want to mention an example of one the absurdities of political correctness.

Two police-women were on patrol together in my home town recently. They were taking some thugs into custody and they got beaten up quite badly in the process-kicked in the head, that kind of thing.

Usually there’s a male and a female cop paired together, but because of the feminist lobby pushing for equality, and gender quotas in recruitment, that’s not always possible these days.

Some of these (unarmed) women police are really small and less well able than their male counterparts to handle violent thugs twice their size. Point is, due to political correctness and equality legislation, these situations are able to arise.

A similar example happened recently in Atlanta (I think it was Atlanta), where a suspect on trial overpowered a female guard and shot the judge and a few others using her gun. There was previously a six foot height requirement for the job, meaning mostly it was bigger guys better able to handle themselves. It’s happened more than once since they changed the courtroom height (and possibly gender) rule.

‘Equality’ is Marxist/communist failed theory; Strong equals weak. Intelligent equals stupid. Big equals small. When it’s put into social policy, like gender quotas, people lose out, maybe not the salaried social-engineers that promote it, but ordinary people.
It’s a load of bollox when you examine it closely and question it.

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quote:You are walking through a part of town that you are unfamiliar with. You come to a fork in the road. The left fork is a "black" street. The right fork is a "white" street. Which fork would you take and why?

For me, I would take the right (white) fork. The reason is because sociological studies will prove—or at least suggest—that there will be less chance of petty crime on the white street. Basing my decision on basic scientific studies, does that make me a racist?

I would take the fork that seems most likely to take me to my destination.
Why? Well as it’s likely to take me to my destination it’s also more likely that the people there can point me in the right direction.

Aside from that I’ll stay out of this discussion cause I feel it will only be a repetition of the ‘other’ discussion. Both sides have their minds made up and are not willing to give in (myself included).

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You are walking through a part of town that you are unfamiliar with. You come to a fork in the road. The left fork is a "black" street. The right fork is a "white" street. Which fork would you take and why?

For me, I would take the right (white) fork. The reason is because sociological studies will prove—or at least suggest—that there will be less chance of petty crime on the white street. Basing my decision on basic scientific studies, does that make me a racist?

No, that’s what is called "rational discrimination". So long as it’s based on verifable facts and crime statistics, it’s not racist. Now if the figures were the reverse and the black street was safe and the white dangerous and you still avoided the black street, then that would be racist. But if you are rational, you’d avoid the white street in that situation and it would not be racist, just common sense. Jesse Jackson himself even made a similiar comment as you did a few years back and he’s certainly not racist against blacks.

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Now if the figures were the reverse and the black street was safe and the white dangerous and you still avoided the black street, then that would be racist.

What if taking the white street got you there quicker?

I think black people have a big chip on the shoulder, you play this out, basically you sound like you are victimising yourself.

It would be so much easier for everyone if different races couldn’t interbreed and every race stayed where they belong.

Immigration, interbreeding and slavery are to blame for a lot of todays fuckups, along with religion and GWB.

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What if taking the white street got you there quicker?

Apparently you don’t have the common sense to understand the point I was making. I’m sure everybody else understood, so maybe they can explain it to you.

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I think black people have a big chip on the shoulder

Really? How many blacks do you know down there in Australia?

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It would be so much easier for everyone if different races couldn’t interbreed and every race stayed where they belong.

I guess that means you’d have to leave Australia and give it back to the Aboriginees.

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Immigration, interbreeding and slavery are to blame for a lot of todays fuckups, along with religion and GWB.

None of the above(except slavery) will be disappearing anytime soon, so figure out some way to enjoy your life.

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Lots of darkies in Australia they’re called abos, maoris and pacific islanders, I think it was a crying shame we stopped the white Australia policy. We’ve also go a shit load of turks, morocans and other middle eastern types, personally I would like it if the whole lot pissed off and left Australia to us Aussies and the abos.

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Also if you have such a problem with racist attitudes in the US why don’t you bugger off back to Africa and be with your own kind. Oh wait you have a much better life in the US don’t you.

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To the list of today’s fuckups one might add what seems to have happened today in London. No no, that’s not quite right – the fuckup is the stupid multi-culti worldview that has invited half the third world to live in downtown London, based primarily(I think) on some idiotic sense of empire guilt.. In any case, multiculturalism blowing up in the face of its epicenter, so to speak…

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Positive,

you do talk some amount of shite sometimes.

Hitler and the Nazi party weren’t the ultimate expression of the ‘will to power’ as you like to hoop on about, they were a fringe movement that cashed in on opertunity and good fortune.

The History books like to harp on about the Nazi war machine, basically it was built on the back of an aready well drilled german scientific/engineering disipline & industry.

in the space of 8 or 9 years, Germans didn’t suddenly just develop V2 rockets & the final solution because of Nazi ideology and political thinking, it was already there within the German people, long before the Nazi party.

In fact, the Nazis fucked up, any other group with half a brain in their head wouldn’t have lost the war as the Nazi party and Hitler did.

All the cultural aspects of Nazism are very homosexual, the dressing up, the rituals… the party was awash with faggots who as a sub group don’t lend themselves to well to the ‘will to power’… people like Hitler were attracted to such groups in the way pedophiles are to running boy scout groups, hidden agenda, being weak they can blend in, and the groups are easily manipulated.

I think you give too much credence to the Nazis and put them on a pedestal. Guys liek you think that a single parastic culture is much better than a mulitfaceted culture, that’s way fucked up.

I’d love to see what sort of world you’d like to live in!

Nazism is the ultimate evil because certain OTHER insidious Zionist groups want it to be that way, they are peerceived as such by the world because the victims have had free reign to do so… that for me is expression of unbridled ‘will to power’.

No mention of the millions that died in India at the hands of the British Empire, you don’t know becuase they don’t wnat you to know. History reflects only what those here and now want to to think. it’s a distortion, more like what didn’t happen!

Look to today, the Neo-cons, the Zionists… that’s will to power

Our world is run on money systems of their design, we are enslaved by Jewish usary, not hijacked by them but created by them. Jewish influence extends to all areas of the worlds free press, politics, control the USA, you control the world.

Pales what the Nazis didn’t 1000 fold.

History books will portray Israel and the Jews in a very favourable light, regardles of what happens… I’d bet a million bucks on it.

Satans greatest trick was making the wolrd beleive he didn’t exist.

W.A.S.P America had nothing to fear from the Nazis, why 50 years later has that flipped on it’s head ?? Because America is Jewish controlled!

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Also if you have such a problem with racist attitudes in the US why don’t you bugger off back to Africa and be with your own kind. Oh wait you have a much better life in the US don’t you.

You idiot, who was complaining about racism in America in this thread? Stupid ass, I was talking about Mexico. Try actually reading the title of this thread.

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To the list of today’s fuckups one might add what seems to have happened today in London. No no, that’s not quite right – the fuckup is the stupid multi-culti worldview that has invited half the third world to live in downtown London, based primarily(I think) on some idiotic sense of empire guilt.. In any case, multiculturalism blowing up in the face of its epicenter, so to speak…

Blaming it on multiculturalism is too broad of a brush. Indians don’t seem to be causing any problem in England. The problem is Islam.

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Jboy, do you believe in the protocols of the elder of zion? You sure don’t seem to like Jews too much. I think all this Jewish conspiracy stuff is rubbish. I’m not surprised to hear such coming off the streets of Fallujah, but not on eurotrip.

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Also if you have such a problem with racist attitudes in the US why don’t you bugger off back to Africa and be with your own kind. Oh wait you have a much better life in the US don’t you.

You idiot, who was complaining about racism in America in this thread? Stupid ass, I was talking about Mexico. Try actually reading the title of this thread.

I won’t defend Jake or his POV but you have mentioned the current situation in the US in some of your posts in this thread to put across your views on the issue.

I have a little black sambo doll and had the books when I was a child, they were fun stories that went well with burr rabbit, bugs bunny, play school and all the other things we had as children.

The world is becoming pathetic and too PC, I’m tired of it, people today need to grow up and start worry about real world problems like global warming, the middle east, GWB, African famine (not that you will ever be able to teach an African to feed and look after themselves, they were much better of under colonial rule), pollution, removing the menace of nuclear proliferation from our midst.

Once the biggies have been sorted then get down to trivial issues like this.

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I do feel a genuine sense of sympathy for the people that were killed or injured yesterday, of course. However, part of me can’t help feeling a slight bit of schadenfreude towards those types of people who would go up to Scotland and bitch and scream and throw bottles at police, all in the supposedly noble but really stupid, ignorant, un-thought-out name of cancelling debt to Africa and giving ever-more money to corrupt African governments. And London is the embodiment of this mentality – democratically elected Blair, after all, is the leader of the G8 meeting and that is precisely his agenda.

In any case, I’m not saying that London deserved it. Only that the terrorists don’t give a shit about how liberal you are or how "noble" your motives.. They want to destroy the West – and that includes everything from thick-headed skinheads to dumb-headed white teenagers with dread-locks sporting (so idiotically and predictably..) Che Guevara t-shirts. Period. Just as none of the people killed on 9/11 had ever sent a check to Israel – presumably anyway, probably most of those killed yesterday opposed the Iraq war.. But that’s the point – it doesn’t matter, because it’s the whole spectrum they want to destroy. So the schadenfreude is for what I suppose could be termed liberal(thus, multicultural) smugness..

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Positiveman & all,

you can never under the Islamic mind until you read ‘Maalim fi al-Tariq’ (Milestones) by Sayyid Qutb.

Everything you post is rubbish!

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NPR ran a piece today, kinda interesting…

http://www.npr.org/t…

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NPR ran a piece today, kinda interesting…

http://www.npr.org/t…

You really have some issues don’t you Mod, is it insecurity, or a small willie.

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"So long as it’s based on verifable facts and crime statistics, it’s not racist."

So Modulis, according to the scientific (i.e. factual) Bell Curve, it’s not racist to state that blacks are averagely less intelligent than whites ?

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"So long as it’s based on verifable facts and crime statistics, it’s not racist."

So Modulis, according to the scientific (i.e. factual) Bell Curve, it’s not racist to state that blacks are averagely less intelligent than whites ?

Never read the book, so it’s hard to dispute something I’ve never read. I’m not worried about it, it doesn’t apply to me.

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Oh yes – the Bell Curve applies to all of us (since it’s a curve covering the full spectre).

I won’t guess where you are placed on that curve, but I’ve got my idea …

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Nevertheless you don’t answer my question, Modulis – so I’ll make it a bit less dependant of what you’ve read.

If scientific research shows that blacks are less intelligent than whites (or askenaze jews more intelligent than asians), it won’t be racist to repeat it over and over again in any given context ?

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Nevertheless you don’t answer my question, Modulis – so I’ll make it a bit less dependant of what you’ve read.

If scientific research shows that blacks are less intelligent than whites (or askenaze jews more intelligent than asians), it won’t be racist to repeat it over and over again in any given context ?

If it is irrefutable scientifically proven fact and you’re simply stating the facts, then, no it’s not inherantly racist since the truth can’t be racist. But the key word is irrefutable. Many researchers have counter arguments to Murry and Herrnstein’s conclusions. I have my own theories on the topic but don’t care to plunge into it.

Also, I think there’s way too many complexities on this subject to make generalized statement like "group X is more intelligent than group Z". Sometimes there are wide variation of intelligence within a group of the same race simply based on economic factors, like for example high caste Indians outscoring low caste Indians, you can’t say that has anything to do with race. Also, rural American whites score lower than urban American whites even though they have the same genes. Perhaps more intellectual stimulation in the cities is the reason, I don’t know. One can only conclude that genes are the key factor once everything else has been effectively eliminated, and from what I’ve seen on the topic, I don’t think it the case. But if it is the truth, then so be it.

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The Bell Curve is pretty tenuous evidence to have in your corner. The authors’ methodologies have been critiqued by literally hundreds of scientists.