Longer comments later, but Salt Flats should not cost $150/pp. I paid $70 for my 3-day trip and I went with the best company in town.

"4)Or would it be better for us to go roughly: BsAs – Mendoza – Valparaiso – ?? – ?? – Arica – San Pedro — Arequipa — Lake Titicaca — Cusco/Machu Picchu — La Paz — Cochabamba — Sucre — Salt Flats — Salta and fly back. This way would save us 120 in flights but it seems like much more in buses, not exactly my girlfriend’s favorite!"

About 3 weeks ago I did the Arequipa – BA route via bus. (actually went from Lima straight to BA – took me a grand total of 4 nights and 3 days of straight travel time. I arrived in Tacna, a few hours from Arequipa – probably 4 I’m guessing, don’t remember exactly, but I arrived in Tacna about 2 pm (having left Lima the previous evening about 7…and Lima to Arequipa is about 14 hours). So, got to Tacna at about 2 pm Wed., went across the border to Arica, hopped a direct bus to BA, and arrived Sat. at about 10 am. So with that route you’d be looking at at least 3-4 days of straight sitting on bus time, not counting if you break it up and spend a few hours or a night in some places along the way. So if you go that route, be prepared for that – and make sure your girlfriend is!! I also have to say that as a person who normally greatly enjoys the bus rides, I almost went nuts this particular ride. Unless you absolutely need to go this route, or want to stop and check out places like Mendoza, Santiago, Antifogasta, etc., I’d say avoid this route. There are MUCH more interesting bus routes out there (this is all basically desert). If you go direct, bussing from Arica to BA will end up costing you about $100 each.

"2)After Machu Pichu, we essentially have 20 days to get to Buenos Aires. Here there is uncertainty. should we head down chilean coast OR inland to Puerto Maldonado and through Trinidad, Santa Cruz, northern Paraguay?"

If you head inland, I would say you have tons of great possibilities. Puerto Maldonaldo would be great. You could also head up from La Paz into Rurrenabaque if you want to get in a jungle trip – great place. Or after salt flats, you can go direct up to La Paz, and then on the way back, go down to Potosi/Sucre/Saimaipata, up to Santa Cruz. Or go over to Cochabamba and then point and then on to Santa Cruz. For my trip I had originally planned to loop around Bolivia, and then out of Santa Cruz there’s a train ride to Corumba in the Pantanal (about 24 hours). I had then planned to do a four day trip in the pantanal (which if you are interested in animal life at all, this is supposed to be the absolute …the best in south america I’ve heard from many many many…you supposedly see more in this part in a few days than months in the upper brazilian amazon. in the experience of many I talked to. these trips involve travel through jeep, horse, boat – a little bit of everything). So, you could do that, then go on down through that area – bonita, campo grande, (all in Brasil), and then right on into Foz de Iquazu. Check out the falls there, and then back on down to BA. This was my original route I had planned for myself. Didn’t work out this last trip, but I’m keeping that route as the plan for next time!

"5)Train/Machu Picchu costs 100/person, Salt Flats maybe 150/person, are there any other big tours/experiences that are worth this kind of money after coming so far?"

Trust me, there are ALWAYS great trips and tours available!! Are you interested in a jungle trip? Great ones out of Rurre., Bolivia. Also there’s the Pantanal option – supposedly fabulous. Puerto Maldonado has options – bit more expensive. If you’re into trekking, there are tons of great hikes and trips out of Cusco.

So now that I’ve probably given you more questions and things to think about than answers, hoped I helped out a bit!

hey, thanks for the info man, I’ve got the mind a-spinnin! I’m just chomping at the bit because right now there are flights from madrid to buenos aires for 725US but my return date won’t be available for 11 days and I’m afraid that price will go up quite a bit in the meantime!

You’ll have a great time! If you haven’t bought your tickets already, you may also want to check out www.airtreks.com — they specialize in multi-stop trips, so you might be able to get something cheaper that way. LAN Chile, the Chilean national airline, also puts specials on its website every Tuesday for international, domestic and intra-South American travel.

I regret not stopping in Potosi in between Sucre and Uyuni. It would have broken up what turned out to be an excruciating (18 hour, though we were quoted 10) bus trip wedged into a deathtrap clearly not designed for human beings over 5 feet tall, plus everybody I’d met who’d been there had rave reviews. I do not recommend the night bus from Uyuni to Sucre. See death trap comment above. The roads are very dangerous, as evidenced by how my bus began to plunge over the edge of a cliff. After this, it stopped for a freezing cold unscheduled 5-hour layover in Potosi. Subsequent bus journeys proved less harrowing, though I mostly stayed off the night bus after that. When you go to buy bus tickets, scan the parking lot of the station for modern-looking buses, then buy from those companies rather than letting vendors lead you astray. If you do want to cram yourself into a sardine can with wheels which you will share with livestock, the experience is available. I, however, declined.

Calama is home to the largest copper mine in the world. I have never seen a more depressing place and the air made my lungs feel like burning.

Re: the bits of Chile mentioned by 8cheerios: I liked Antofogasta quite a lot. It had a cool Wild Westy field and an inexplicable number of cheap Brazilian restaurants which served large quantities of meat. Wandering around there was somehow enthralling and you can take the bus a bit out of town to Mirador de la Portada, a strange rock formation in the middle of the ocean. It’s one of those places you think can’t get more beautiful but it does every time you turn a corner. There was a path along the beach with lots of sea caves, but it was closed because of a landslide when I visited. Santiago wasn’t very special, but Valparaiso (about 2 hours away) was amazing. I couldn’t leave. Be sure you stay in the hills; they have a completely different ambience (and the air is not so foul and polluted). It brings up lots of travel cliches, like winding backstreets and narrow alleyways and charming architecture, but it also has a gritty urban feel. There is lots of cool graffitti/street art and it’s an amazing place to chill. If you are looking to photograph non-dangerous urban decay, that would be the place. Santiago to BA is 24 survivable hours. I bought sleeping pills and the bus company was very nice anyway. A lot of the route was really beautiful.

I found nothing to love in Cochabamba except the daytime bus ride to La Paz. The (paved) highway literally goes over the top of the highest parts of the Andes and you pass through lots of tiny farming/ranching villages that you’d never see any other way. I didn’t want the ride to end.

I second the recommendation for the jungle tour in Rurrenabaque. I paid $25/day. I told the company that I wanted to go on a trek, which turned out to be amazing even though we ended up returning to the base camp early. I had thought it would be cool to sleep out in the jungle every night, but it turned out that the company was dodgy and did not provide enough food. Instead, I settled for one amazing (and kinda terrifying) night in the jungle and then asked to be returned to the little cabin at the base camp. The other girl completely flipped out and ended her tour early. Her loss. I ended up getting to keep the guide all to myself and he showed me some amazing things. On the last day, we climbed a little mountain where scarlet macaws nested and got to watch them fly over the top of the jungle. You can reach Rurrenabaque by a highway called the Death Road, or you can fly for $100 round trip. If you want to save money, you can cycle down the deadliest portion of the road and catch a bus from there.

Have you visited www.kahunna.net yet? Kolby took a really amazing trip to South America last year.

I forgot to mention this in the last post…

It is really, really hard get change for the large bills that come out of the ATM, but the bank is legally obligated to break them for you in both Bolivia and Peru. I recommend you do this anyway because the Peruvian ATMs occasionally dispense counterfeit notes.

would it be possible from eastern bolivia to cross and fly from Caceres, Brazil to Foz Iguacu, cutting off a distance but it would still be cheaper because it would be international?

This thread has so much info on it, I gotta print it out!

I’m about 10 days from buying still, currently spying airmadrid with 560 bucks from madrid to lima and then buenos aires to madrid. I can only hope that it would still be on offer when my time comes! man oh man!

It’s hard, the trip will probably be more like 29 July to 23 of September instead of 8 full weeks, but these are good problems. Which are the cities that tended to draw you in longer and which were ones you didn’t dig the vibe? Which is your favorite south america capital on this route to see, lima, la paz or buenos aires? I’m leaning towards Buenos Aires I think but…

La Paz was by far my favorite, although it took me a little while to get into it. In the end, I stayed there two weeks, walking down past my hotel to the witch’s market and back up to the black market at the top of the hill every day. There were backstreets with friendly little coffee shops and the big main street had an ice cream place with delicious cinnamon ice cream. I felt safe no matter where I went there and surrounded by people and things that were different from home. Plus it was by far the cheapest capital city of South America.

I did like old town Lima. Most people stay in Miraflores because it’s safer, but it was just too expensive even before we factored in the cost of cab rides to get there. We got a cool hostel in an old mansion and they had really great safety info and a pool of their own drivers so we always had safe transport. Old Town during the day was just fine, bustling actually, tons of shoppers and business people. I loved the faded elegance and all the hole-in-the-wall restaurants but sigh it really is not safe at night. I didn’t personally have or see any problems, but the fact that my hostel staff felt I should be concerned made me think the horror stories were at least partly true. I couldn’t settle down for too long in a place where I so constantly needed to be on my guard.

I can’t really comment on BA. I was there for 5 days at the end of my trip and I was just ready to go home. I just couldn’t feel any atmosphere there and it just didn’t compare to La Paz. It wasn’t a place where I felt like I was seeing something terribly different from home. The tango is amazing though!

Well I have to say I echo Meredith’s thoughts on this almost exactly! I ended up absolutely loving La Paz as well. Great music scene, great international traveler/"I-got-stuck-here" vibe. Some great places if you like live music. Befriended a couple wandering jewelry-selling Argentinian musicians and would often go see them play, which was great. Met some people who were friends with people who worked at my hostel, and ended up with this whole network of people. Would walk down the street, run into people I knew. It was great. And all within a couple days. All so friendly.
I also stayed in the witches market area, which I just found fabulous. The shop owners are all so so nice and friendly if you get to know them, as are all the older women who sell all the old "witche’s brew" medicinal/ceremonial stuff. Really neat women, more than happy to explain anything and everything in their stores! Anyway, I for one had a great time in La Paz. Some wonderful cheap restaurants, great cheap and good market food and juices, great music, and some great coffee places as well (yes, GREAT coffee places!). So that was my take on La Paz. I’d go back. For sure.

I too ended up in Buenos Aires at the very tail end of my trip, and after what I had been through, types of areas beforehand, it was a bit of a shock to be thrown into urban, European, sohphisticated Buenos Aires. Huge culture shock, actually. It was at the end of my trip and I felt really worn and dirty by that point, and being thrown into 5th Ave NY-esque type streets and what seemed fashion capitol of the world I felt a little odd…pretty sloppy in my Cusco wool sweaters and pants! And there was so much French and English and German and other languages around, I didn’t know where I was! Somewhere in this very pretty, full of great restaurants, architecturally-gorgeous and very modern city that could be anywhere. The tango parts are spectacular, and the old town, and the architecture, and all the antique stores, and all that classic tango part of town and that whole look that still exists…great feel, very cool. loved it. As well as all the architecture. But mainly I have to say what I took away from BA was sleek, sophisticated European city with lots of cheap steak and dulce de leche and McDonalds and pastries and cafe con leche. Set in really neat architecture with really beautiful, fashion-conscious people from all over the world. So if that’s what you’re looking for, great. It’s beautiful. It’s hip. It’s sleek. Christion Dior, all the big fashion king and queens. Lots of stores and boots and clothes and sweets. That was my personal take on BA. But then for the more unique, "cultural side", La Paz was just f’n cool as all heck in my opinion. Unique, unpretentious, amazing setting, inexpensive, and just cool and friendly as all heck.
As for Lima, about the same thing as Meredith said. I was there several times, and never ran into problems myself, but most of the time I was with people who live there. And yet they were always warning to be careful and would be super careful at night themselves walking around. And were always telling me to be careful. And I did hear lots of stories of people who got scammed. But, mainly people who trusted people they met on the street to watch their bags while they went to the bathroom, or went out of main tourist areas. Stuff like that. Seems like if you’re careful though, and just watch your back, don’t go in the obviously sketchy areas, don’t wave around your camera, keep your bag close, and don’t let a stranger hold your purse, you’re fine. Common sense, hiked up a notch. So, there ya have it. Lots of really cool stuff in the city though. The old architecture, the buildings. And the big joke, about any artifact, old jewel, etc. in Peru – where is it? Lima. Its museums house just about anything old and cool and valuable in the country, including things that were once in other museums elsewhere but have since moved. And there are catacombs and stuff as well.
So, blabbing much more than I should, that’s my long winded, personal experience with each of the three cities you mentioned.

So, answering your question: overall, my vote far and away goes to La Paz, Bolivia. (and then Cusco, if you get out of tourist central, is a really really cool neat city as well)

Good luck!

What is there to add to the excellent posts from Meredith and 8cheerios? They captured a lot of my thoughts on the areas I’ve been to (Peru/Bolivia).

Judging by your well-planned itinerary, it appears you’ve traveled before, Jason. You’ve left plenty of space to recalibrate your plans while you’re traveling. This is very important in all travel, but most definitely in South America. I learned on my 2-week trip last December that printed schedules aren’t kept most of the time. Transportation will leave when it’s ready. Flights will be delayed. (My 5pm flight from Juliaca to Lima was cancelled… and the 10p flight I was bumped onto was delayed until 1am.)

Be careful what tour operator you use for the Uyuni salt flats. I’ve heard from a few people that the vehicles used can be unreliable. I’m pretty sure that Meredith shared a photo with me of her driver tinkering under the hood of the truck they were using. Two friends I traveled with for a while in Peru and Bolivia ended up finding themselves stuck on the flats for 36 hours due to a broken-down vehicle. Just a head’s up!

okay, well, here’s an update:

jul 27 to sep 21 buenos aires to lima
week one – buenos aires, daytrip to colonia
week two – iguazu, asuncion
week three – tucuman, salta, jujuy
week four – uyuni, potosi
week five – sucre, la paz
week six – lake titicaca
week seven – cusco, machu picchu
week eight – arequipa and lima

this is rough of course, but we have the plane tickets now, woohoo!

questions:
1)what is the best way to go from Salta/Jujuy to Salt Flats in Uyuni?
2)with a week roughly for lake titicaca, which of the islands would you stay one or two nights?
3)Which of these routes would be better to fly:
*cusco or arequipa to lima
*sucre to la paz
4)Is Colca Canyon also worth it?
5)What are we forgetting?

From what I know, the best way to get to Uyuni from Jujuy is taking a bus from San Salvador de Jujuy to La Quiaca (about 6 hours). Then from La Quiaca you have to pass to Bolivia (a 10 minutes walk) to a town called Villazon. There are trains that leave from Villazon to Uyuni, but Im not sure about the days.
What are you forgetting… did you think about doing the Inka Trail? I really enjoyed it, it gives you the possibility to get to Machu Picchu before all the tourists arrive. Its not the same taking a train to Machu Picchu then walking for 4 days to see it.