Im trying to go to locations both in what you call classic and mediterranean but not sure if I have the money or not. I really want to see Italy and France. Try to see what you guys want to see the most ,make a list or a chart or soemthing. Ive never been to europe before either this summer im popping my leaving the contient cherry.

All three of these trips would be amazing, so it’s not a question of which one would be better. It’ s really just a question of which would be better for you. You should all ask yourselves exactly what kinds of things you want to do and what you plan on getting out of this trip. Also, if it’s a concern, look in to cost. Some of those cities are more expensive than others. Take climate into consideration. What time of year are you planning on going? Did you want tropical weather? All of you should think about these questions to narrow it down to something that would work for you.

You all need to do some more research, and then come back and ask more specific questions.

 
Are you expecting us to tell you…“go with plan A, because if you attempt plans B and C, you’ll get kidnapped”?
 
All three are great.  If you decided on the 3rd plan, I would heavily tweak it.  (Ask me how).  You can also fit a few more places to all of these itineraries, especially  if this trip is going to last 6 weeks.
 
[]

Thanks everybody for your responses, I really appreciate it!

To just clarify what I’m really asking is not which one is safest or anything, I’ve been to countries much more dangerous than any of these before, so it’s not much of a concern. I guess what I’m asking is what are the pro’s and con’s of each trip coming from people who have been to these places, for people who have never been to these places. We would be a group of 5 or so teenagers (all 18+) going in the June/July looking to see some great places with good nightlife. Also, I was wondering where your money goes the farthest, I assume it would be in Scandinavia but really have no clue.

And in response to you luv_the_beach, I was also wondering how you would augment these itineraries to make them work better and also what places you all would recommend if you had any.

Thanks again and I apologize for my ingorance

I was only being sarcastically silly about getting kidnapped.  The thing is, whether you have an itch to visit Scandinavia and the Baltic, or Mediterranean Europe, or a “classic” tour…that’s entirely up to you.  Different posters will give you different opinions.  Whenever people ask questions like “should I visit Finland or Portugal”, the answer to such a question can’t possibly be subjective; people will suggest you visit the country they already visited because they had a great time there (as if you can’t have a good time at the other choice).  To some people, “Europe” is Britain + Ireland.  To others, it’s beer fests in Amsterdam, Munich, and Prague.  To me, it’s the sunny climate and lifestyle of Mediterranean Europe.  And to others, it’s “roughing it” in countries that have yet to be touched by tourism (like Albania, Moldova, or Belarus).  Different people will steer you according to their own tastes, and not because of any practicality or inside information.  All three of your hypothetical itineraries are really good (as rough itineraries, of course).  So, there’s nothing from a practical or technical perspective that makes any of these itineraries superior to the other two.

As for the possible length of your trip (you said it can be from 4 to 6 weeks), what does this depend on?  Work?  School?  Or are you flexible? 

hope this clears some things up. []

I’d suggest Scandanavia.  Not many people make the trip but those who do love it.  A tourist in Amsterdam told me Stockholm was his favorite city in the world.  Damn, 4-6 weeks.  I envy you.  My trip this summer will be a mere 8 or 9 days.

luv_the_beach I totally understand what you’re saying about how one can’t possibly say one place is “better” than another, so I guess I didn’t really mean which one is “best” but what are the pro’s and con’s for each trip coming from people who have been there, for people who have never been there. SO let me rephrase my question, what are the ups and downs of each trip in terms of money, ease of transportation etc. assuming that we would love to go on each trip.

and as for the length of the trip, it’s really open-ended, we aren’t bound by anything per se. Obviously we can’t stay for the entire summer but we want to stay long enough to feel like we aren’t rushing from place to place but not so long that we break the bank..

hope this clears some things up!

 
The opposite. This is the world’s top 10 put out by CnnMoney based on cost-of-living indices
Oslo Norway [/align]Paris France [/align]Copenhagen Denmark [/align]London United Kingdom [/align]Tokyo Japan [/align]Osaka Japan [/align]Reykjavic Iceland [/align]Zurich Switzerland[/align]Frankfurt Germany [/align]Helsinki Finland [/align] 
Moscow and Stockholm are not far behind. Its entirely up to you but if youre wanting to save money thats the worst of the three. Milan is not worth the time by the way.

Cost:

Overall, you mentioned 14 countries: Portugal, Spain, France, Belgium, Netherlands, Germany, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Russia, Monaco, Italy, Greece, Turkey.  Of all these countries, your dollar goes farthest in Turkey.  All of the other 13 countries you mentioned have a high cost of living (and hence high prices), with the Scandinavian countries being the most expensive as jonniboy mentioned.  As far as individual cities are concerned: St. Petersburg and Moscow can also be expensive; Moscow ranks as one of the most expsnsive cities in the world for a visiting foreigner.  Expect high prices in Britain as well, with restaurant and cafe prices especially high in London.  Spain, Greece, and Portugal used to be cheap destinations (and they can still be a little cheaper than the other countries you mentioned, except Turkey), but over the past decade, the cost of living has skyrocketed in these countries; thankfully, backpackers still have it pretty good in&nbsportugal/Spain/Greece because&nbspublic transportation and hostels are still cheaper [than in Italy/Germany/France/Britain/Belgium], but this can be offset by high prices for consumer goods.  For example, public transportation is cheaper in Athens than in Brussels, but food, toileteries, and a cup of coffee cost significantly more in Athens than in Brussels.  So you may find the Athens Metro relatively cheap, but when you visit a supermarket in Greece [or even a farmer’s market]&nbsprepare for price-tag shock.  There’s also variations within a country; in Spain, you’ll find lodging (at a simple pensión) more expensive in Barcelona or San Sebastián than in Granada.  And, contrary to backpacker myth, beer is not cheap in Spain; the small price for a glass of beer corresponds with a very small serving.  But to answer your original question: of the 3 itineraries, the Scandinavia-Russia one definitely will be the itinerary where your money buys the least.  

My suggestion:

6 week trip:
[ol][*]Lisbon
[*]Southern Portugal: Évora (in Alentejo region) and/or Algarve region/coast
[*]Sevilla
[*]Madrid, with day trip(s) to Segovia and/or Toledo
[*]Barcelona
[*]Perpignan & Carcassonne
[*]Paris & with weekend trip to Loire chateaux if possible (Amboise, Chenonceau, or Blois)
[*]Belgium (Brussels, and Liège or Ghent)
[*]Amsterdam
[*]Cologne/Bonn and Middle Rhine Valley 
[*]Berlin[/ol]
Other suggestions:

Instead of the Loire chateaux, you can head for Brittany and Normandy (Mont-Saint-Michel and Saint Malo) as a 3-day side trip from Paris.  Then back to Paris, and off to Belgium.

From Cologne to the Middle-Rhine valley to Bavaria (including Munich and environs).  Can fly out of Munich.




My suggestion:

6 week trip:
[ol][*]Paris
[*]Dijon
[*]Nîmes, with day trip(s) to&nbspont du Garde, Arles, and/or Avignon
[*]Antibes/Juan-les-Pins with day trip(s) to Nice, Cannes, Menton, Eze, and/or Roquebrune-Cap-Martin
[*]Venice
[*]Tuscany (Florence, Siena, and/or Lucca) and/or Cinque Terre
[*]Rome, then off to Bari or Brindisi, ferry to Corfu
[*]Corfu
[*]Metéora-Kalambáka
[*]Athens
[*]Rhodes and optional Symi or Kos, then back to Rhodes
[*]Marmaris/Fethiye/Bodrum
[*]Istanbul[/ol]
Other suggestions:

From Venice, straight to Florence, then straight to Rome, then to Campania region, exploring the region (Naples, Amalfi Coast, Capri, Pompeii, Paestum, etc), then off to Bari/Brindisi.

From Athens to Santoríni instead of Rhodes.  Then back to Athens [or another Cycladic Island (Syros, Paros, Mykonos), then back to Athens].  Then up to Thessaloníki, spend a day, then off to Istanbul.

Thanks for all the tips guys!
I’ve tried to combine two of the trips into one, but I’m hoping I’m not cutting it too thin. We’re trying to combine seeing the big cities with nightlife but also to get a feel for the areas. This is a general outline, but I’d really like to hear suggestions based on places you’ve all been to or also if you would rearrange some of it or change the length of stay etc.

1. Hamburg, Germany – 3 days
2. Amsterdram, Netherlands – 2 days
3. Brussels, Belgium – 2 days
4. Paris, France (side trips?)– 4 days
5. Geneva, Switzerland – 1 day
6. Arles (in transit) or Aix-en-Provence?– 1 day
7. Cannes / Nice / Villefranche, France – 3 days (1 each?)
8. Monaco – 1-2 days ?
9. Milan, Italy – 2 days
10. Venice, Italy – 2 days
12. Manarola or Veranazza / Pisa, Italy – 1 day
13. Rome, Italy (side trips?) – 3 days
14. Corfu, Greece / Transit to Athens – 1-2 days
15. Athens, Greece – 3 days
16. Mykonos or some other island, Greece – 2 days
17. Istanbul, Turkey – 3 days

currently this is about 36 days.. I think 40 days is probably the limit, would it be too much to add in Berlin at the beginning, or Crete towards the end (and are they worth it)? And also I don’t know the length of the train trips but is this feasible given the length of the train / ferry trips?

thanks again!

Any particular reason why you want to go to Hamburg for 3 days?  It’s not the most exciting of places.  As an intro trip to europe, I would skip it altogether.
 
I would also drop Geneva (boring, expensive), but if you want to see a Swiss city nearby, try Lausanne.
 
Switch out Brussels for Antwerp or Ghent, they are much more interesting then Brussels.
 
Check out www.db.de for the length of train trips.  Most of your trip is doable by train…you should investigate the various rail passes.  Several of your destinations are on the high speed train routes like TGV & Thaly, a railpass would most likely be most cost effective on those routes.
 
All of your destinations are very popular destinations.  Going in June/July with 5+ people, I highly recommend you pre-book your accomodations well in advance if you want the best and cheapest hostels.

The main reason I put in Hamburg is because we know people there and so we would probably want to spend time with them as opposed to just seeing the sights and such. Also I put in Geneva as a stop simply because it was on the way to the south of France from Paris… but I’ll check out Lausanne and some other eastern Switzerland cities.

Some lingering questions:

Since many of the Cote D’Azur cities (Cannes, Nice, Villefranche) are close to one another would you all suggest doing a different one each day.. or spending more time in one.

Also would you all recommend spending more time in Provence?

Is Monaco worth staying overnight in or can it be seen in one day (same with Corfu)?

Also for the Cinqueterre towns Manarola / Veranazza.. would you recommend staying overnight in Pisa but doing those towns as a day trip or is it worth spending nights in both places?

And looking at the ferry schedules the Eurail pass ferry leaves from Bari, but the train to get there goes through Naples, should we turn Naples into an overnight or just see it in passing?

I know a lot of this stuff is subjective, but what we’re wondering is from the prospective of a group of 18-19 year olds looking to have fun and see some great sights what would be preferable.

Thanks again, you guys are such a help

Ah.. I suspected as much.  I have good friends in Hamburg, so I go often.  But it’s always a challenge trying to fit it into an itinerary due to transportation/location.  You might want to get your friends there to join/take you on a day trip or two  (i.e. like to Bremen, Luebeck, Schwerin, Hannover) from Hamburg. 
 
My last trip, I chose a stopover in Geneva for exactly the same reason, it was direct from Paris.  In hindsight, I should have stayed in Lausanne (considered it, but the hostels were booked).

one more question: do any of you have an idea of the best way to get from Greece to Istanbul? I’ve done a bunch of looking around online but it’s left me with more questions than answers.

Geneva (and Switzerland in general) is actually a little out of the way when you’re headed from Paris to Provence-Alpes-Côte d’Azur region.  You can definitely&nbsplace Switzerland in your itinerary, but you must do so by allocating time for the country; not by expecting it to be on your way.  And we don’t recommend Geneva.  Switzerland is a beautiful country; there’s much more to it than a banking centre.



You may also find the southern portion of the country truly rewarding.  I’ve been recommending Valais/Wallis and Ticino cantons to people with similar itineraries. 



The Côte d’Azur is in Provence.  Sometimes people refer two these two as if they were separate entities, but actually, one is inside the other. 

The Côte d’Azur is a strip of coastline, dotted by famous holiday/vacation towns like Saint Tropez, Cannes, and so on.  It starts at Toulon (a town just east of Marseille), and runs east all the way to the Italian border.  Most of the Côte d’Azur lies within historical Provence, and while it may have a bit of a different feel from inland Provence (like Arles or Avignon) the culture, food, and historical dialect are still&nbsprovençal, as well as most of the architecture (until you get real close to Italy: towns like Nice and Menton ruled by the Kingdom of Sardinia [House of Savoy] before being ceded to France).  Today, the entire region from Avignon to Marseille to Menton, and including the southern stretch of the French Alps, falls within the modern administrative region called Provence-Alpes-Côte d’Azur.

To answer your question, you can base yourself for 3 or 4 days in a town like Nice or Antibes, and take a couple day-trips to other Côte d’Azur towns.  (Yes they are real close to each other for the most part).  Another thing you can do, is spend 2 days in Arles (one of these days can be spent as a day-trip to Avignon, Aix-en-Provence, or Nîmes), and then 2 days in a Côte d’Azur town (making one of these days a day-trip to another Côte d’Azur town).


[ol][*]No, Monaco is not really worth your trouble
[*]Corfu requires more than a day. I’d say 2-3 days.  I’m not sure why you think it’s just a one-day transit point.  The island features prominently in later Greek history, and is home to not only an incredible coastline (and beaches), but also a UNESCO World Heritage Site encompassing the entire baroque & neoclassical city including its&nbspost-medieval military forts.[/ol]



Just spend those 2-3 days in Cinque Terre instead.  Another option: base yourself in Florence, and do day-trips to other Tuscan towns.  Don’t feel like you have to visit Pisa.  Pisa’s main draw is the Renaissance church (unique architecture, but quintessentially Renaissance) and its infamous tilted belltower.  And while it is a charming town, I think you’re better off staying in stunning Siena or Florence as far as Tuscan cities go, maybe making a day-trip to Pisa; (or you can just take a 2-3 day holiday in Cinque Terre).  The Duomo of Florence, for example, may not have a quirky leaning tower, but it is a stunning church…highly worth skipping Pisa for if you have to.



Those Eurail maps can be deceiving.  Don’t assume that Rome-Bari trains pass through Naples.  For starters, Napoli Centrale is an end station, not a through station.  However, Naples is on your general route from Rome to Bari, so, if you want, you can take a train to Naples, and then a train to Bari.  You can visit the Campania region if interested (Naples, Pompeii, Amalfi Coast, etc).  To avoid seeing more of Italy at the expense of other countries, I’d say you can do Florence (1-2 days), Rome (1-3 days), then 2-4 days in Campania region, or the reverse: Toscana region and/or Cinque Terre (2-4) days, Rome (1-3 days), Naples (1-2) days.



Well, you insist on Hamburg, so here’s my suggested itinerary, trying not to deviate too much:
[ol][*]Hamburg, 3 days
[*]Amsterdam 2 days
[*]Brussels 1-3 days with possible daytrip(s) to Gent and/or Liège
[*]Paris 3-5 days, possible daytrip(s): Normandie/Bretagne (Saint-Malo, Mont-Saint-Michel) and/or Champagne (Reims)
[*]Lausanne and/or Valais/Wallis 2-4 days
[*]Arles and Aix-en-Provence 2 days
[*]Côte d’Azur (base yourself in one town, take daytrips to the others) 2-5 days
[*]Venice 2 days
[*]Toscana region (Florence, Siena, Lucca, San Gimignano, etc) and/or Cinque Terre 2-5 days
[*]Rome 2-3 days
[*]Corfu 2-3 days
[*]Athens 2 days, or 1 full day and 1 night
[*]Cycladic Island of your choice (my recommendation for you is Santoríni, not Mykonos) 2-3 days
[*]Back to Athens, fly to Istanbul[/ol]

 
Well, in the Greece part of your itinerary, the reason I originally suggested Rhodes (instead of a Cycladic Island) is because aside from Rhodes being an amazing&nbsplace in itself it’s easy to get to Turkey from there.  From Athens you would take the ferry to Rhodes, and spend 2-4 days.  Then from Rhodes, ferry to Kusadasi in Turkey, see Bodrum and Fethiye if interested, then head north to Istanbul.
 
Aside from that, you can fly from Athens to Istanbul.  You can also take a train or bus to Istanbul from Thessaloníki.  I recommend either flying to Istanbul from Athens, or going the Rhodes-Kusadasi route.

all depends on what you’d like to do… as a European I’ve done 1 and 3 and they sure are great. 2 might be a bit monotone in the end..

Nevermind Hamburg, go to Berlin instead, for 3 days….
Go to Nice for 4 days, but in those four days, take one day trip to Monaco (thats all you’ll need there, for sure-sies) and a day trip to Cannes…its so Easy to make these day trips from Nice, transportation is only a bus ride away.
See Rome, Florence and Cinque Terra whilst in Italy.
Hey, how about this:
Amsterdam
Paris
Barcelona
Nice (with day trips)
Rome
Florence
Cinque Terra
Berlin
Amsterdam

Go Scandinavia, it’s not touristy you don’t get the crowds that you get in most other European destinations. It’s not as expensive as everyone thinks it is, if you like roasted chicken you can get a cooked chook for about 5 USD in most supermarkets in Norway, Sweden and Denmark. Hostels are better than just about anywhere else, very clean and tidy, they also don’t cost a lot, no more than anywhere in the Uk, you can camp almost anywhere you like in Norway and Sweden. Public transport is very good, getting a Scanrail pass is also fairly cheap. More people probably speak English than most other parts of Europe, southern Europe is terrible in that respect.
 
Stockholm is the most beautiful city in Europe bar none, most people don’t realise this as most people never go anywhere near Sweden or Scandinavia as they think it’s to expensive.
 
One final point Finland is not part of Scandinavia.