A lot of people find madrid a little lame, most people go for the southern coast.  If your that close, I’d suggest Portugal.  I don’t know france very well, I think there are some good sights and experiences there, but not paris. 
 
 

Would more time spent in Barcelona and Pamplona be better?  Im not really one who makes a schedule and sticks to it.  I think this trip will be more fun if I just have a general outline (ie. Fly into a specific city and fly out of a specific city and let the rest just kinda happen).  A few things that I really want to do are:  Run with the bulls, visit some breweries in Germany and of course the Guiness brewery in Ireland, hiking/repelling in Switzerland, and maybe skydiving (in Barcelona?).  Im hoping to meet alot of cool people and just go where the wind (Eurorail pass) takes me. 
 
If anyone has any advice Ill be happy to hear it.  Thanks
 
-Mike

Be really careful with your stuff in Barcelona. The majority of people I talked to in Barcelona had something stolen from them, myself included. Pickpocketing and bag theft seems to be a bigger problem there than any other place I’ve been to in Europe, including Rome and Athens. Just thought I’d mention it. It is a really nice city though.

Saying that Barcelona is worse than Rome and Athens isn’t saying much.  Athens and Rome have actually always been insanely safe cities; most world cities look bad compared to them. 

Don’t assume that just because a country has a warmer climate and the people are not Germanic, that it has a natural predisposition for crime.  This is a very bigotted assumption that you made, and a very uneducated one.  Amsterdam is well known for pickpockets, not Athens.  And cities like London and Stockholm will have more homocides in one day than Rome will see in a decade. 

Petty theft has become a problem in Barcelona, and you’re right to warn fellow travelers.  I wouldn’t have said anything if you hadn’t made your stupid, prejudiced comment on Rome and Athens.  I’m not saying these cities don’t have their share of&nbsproblems, but the fact that you’re using them as a basis of comparison for “bad” cities was an uninformed and&nbsprejudiced assumption.  

American cities like New York and Washington are the real examples of crime-plagued cities.  

what city are you starting in?

Pamplona? I would skip it.  check out Cordoba, Granada, Barcelona as your Spanish stops.

Dublin is sort of out of the way. You’ll need to fly there…………..I’d probably get a railpass if I were you and just get off wherever the train stops.

If you are not too big on Paris, I suggest checking out San Sebastian after Pamplona. As for skydiving, and hiking, you can do it all in Interlaken, Switzerland. Zurich is boring, Interlaken is definately a better choice if you are looking for adventure. Are you planning on flying from Switzerland to Dublin? Cuz trying to get there on Eurail will take forever, and the pass is not valid in the UK. Berlin is worth checking out, so are Prague and Amsterdam, but its all up to you where you want to go. I took roughly the same trip 2 years ago by myself and had the time of my life. Good luck planning
Sam
 
luv the beach, rome and athens both have plenty of petty crime. does it make you feel better about yourself talking shit to a random stranger that was just trying to help someone?

 

They have their share, but Yabio9 is [unfairly] singling them out, giving them a distinction the don’t deserve.  This may come as a shock to a racist anglocentric person like yourself, but they are safer than most other European cities.  The fact that I have to actually point this out to Yabio blows my mind.




Does it make you feel better as an American and an Anglo-Saxon to pretend that the Greco-Roman world is a “dangerous” place, when in fact Anglo and Germanic cities have far higher crime rates? 

Please stop defending bigotry.  Yabio is trying to “help” fellow travelers, but spreading false information doesn’t help anybody.  As I said, he could have stopped short at: “Pickpocketing and bag theft seems to be a bigger problem there than any other place I’ve been to in Europe.”

When he says: “Pickpocketing and bag theft seems to be a bigger problem there than any other place I’ve been to in Europe, including Rome and Athens“ he’s making a false assumption that Rome and Athens are among Europe’s worse cities (when in fact, they are the exact opposite.)  Such an assumption can only come from an uninformed/uneducated racist who assumes that non-Germanic Southern Europe is “bad.”  He didn’t experience anything bad in Rome and Athens, he just assumed that they were bad cities, and used them as his basis of comparison to but Barcelona into context.

Seriously, folks, open a book once in your lives and learn about the world.

Quit being such fuckin bigots. 
 
We’re talking about two of the world’s safest countries here….they make the Britain and USA look like Iraq.
 


 

LOL…didn’t really intend for that response. I was just trying to be helpful. Before I went to Europe I had heard some bad stories about Rome and Athens from people who had been there. Rome was my favorite city, so I have no reason to judge it. I also have the privilage of knowing several Greeks who live in Athens, so I wouldn’t judge that either. I hadn’t heard some much about Amsterdam has I didnt’t go there on this trip. All I was saying is that there are cities that you hear a lot of crime about (I just happened to pick those 2), but Barcelona wasn’t one I had heard anything about before I got there. Just trying to be nice. I also grew up just outside of Washington DC and it being a haven for crime is kind of news to me, but I certainly aren’t offended by your comment.

Seriously, dude, we’re talking about two countries where you can walk almost anywhere at night.  I’ve never heard anything about Rome and Athens.  If you really HAD to use an Italian city, you could have used Naples.  Naples does have a petty theft problem.  But Rome and Athens are insanely tame.

I’ve heard and read&nbspLENTY about London, Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Manchester, and Stockholm…from locals.

Average annual murder rates per 100,000 population 2000-2005:

South Africa 47.53
Colombia 39.33
Jamaica 33.69
Guatemala 25.47
Russia 19.80
Mexico 13.04
Latvia 8.58
Argentina 9.47
Lithuania 9.38
Peru 5.54
United States 5.5
Uruguay 5.64
Switzerland 2.94
Iran 2.93
Finland 2.75
Sweden 2.39
Czech Republic 2.22
South Korea 2.18
Britain 2.03
Canada 2.01
France 1.64
Belgium 1.50
Algeria 1.39
New Zealand 1.29
Australia 1.28
Spain 1.25
Italy 1.23
Iceland 1.03
Kuwait 0.99
Germany 0.98
Saudi Arabia 0.92
Ireland 0.91
Greece 0.76
United Arab Emirates 0.63
Japan 0.50

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_murder_rate







 

How did you get from petty crime to murder rates []

Murder rates are used as an indicator of overall crime when making comparisons between countries, because it is one crime that never goes unreported. 

While it is possible for certain crimes to be more common than others in any given country (for example, Mexico has higher murder rate than US, but lower car theft rate), murder rates disprove the myth of Anglo-Germanic superior civility.  While Anglo countries still fare well on the list, Southern European countries fare much better, smashing the myth that Anglo and Germanic societies are more orderly.  In fact, as I’ve said before, cities like Stockholm, London, Manchester, and especially the American cities, are well-known for their social problems.  Rome isn’t, aside from the occasional sticky-finger gypsy woman in the subway.  And as for Athens, all the guidebooks (Let’s Go, Lonely Planet, Frommers, etc) in the safety/society section in the front rave about how Greece is one of Europe’s safest contries.  This is well-known to Europeans…it’s always North Americans who make the wrong bigotted and arrogant assumptions.

The murder rate also settles the debate about what people “hear” vs. reality (like what you “heard” about Athens…I have lived there dude.  Give me a dark street in Athens over broad daylight in Chicago any day.  In my hometown Chicago I have had wallet stolen, CD player stolen, shoes stolen, jacket stolen, you name it.)   Also, the murder rate helps smash Italy’s undeserved violent reputation given to it by eurotrippers who havent gone there yet and believe what Hollywood tells them.

Seriously, guys.  You’re not authorities on the subject here.  This is a part of Europe I am deeply interested in and have traveled extensively, and over the years have learned a lot about their cultures, societies, politics, economies, and so on.  Unlike you guys, who visited these countries for like a day, and were afraid to venture out of the hostels because of one story you’ve heard, and because the locals don’t have names like Brian and Tiffany.

I’m sorry if I offended you with my comment. It was only in an attempt to help out some who is trying to plan a trip to Europe, no offense was meant. We both are here because we love travel and want to help others experience it to the fullest, so while you may disagree with something I said, us getting into an arguement about it is only distracting from helping others. I was simply sighting a common stereotype (which since traveling to the countries dont believe) and trying to point out a city that I think that travelers deserved to be warned about because of the experiences I had. I have travelled some to Eastern Europe as well and have felt safer there than in a lot of places in Western Europe, so I believe you are right in noting that Eastern Europe gets a bad rap a lot of times. But again, I’m sorry if I offended you with my comments and my potentially misleading remarks. That wasn’t my intent at all.

 
Saying you’ve heard bad things about two cities, that happen to have similar demographics, is in no way racist.  Even if he said Italy and Greece, that still wouldn’t be racist because he is refering to locations, not ethnicities.  Inaccurate, maybe.  Racist, no.
 
And, whether it deserves it or not, Rome does have a slightly negative reputation amoung the backpacking community.  I don’t think there is any harm in giving a simple warning or a suggestion to be cautious.  But its certainly no reason to pull the racism card. 
 

Well, Big Mike got more info than he asked for.
Let’s calm down a bit here, and start another thread to talk about this stuff.

Dude, I feel that Southern Europe (not Eastern Europe) always gets a bad rap from North Americans…ironically however Med Europe it’s one of the world’s safest regions (let alone the most visited region in the world).  I’d feel 1000 times safer walking around Madrid and Rome than Berlin and London.



Yes, it is prejudice when an American assumes without any experience that two of Europe’s SAFEST large cities are “bad.”  I do not believe it’s a mere coincidence that the misconception is about two Greco-Latin cities, and not two Germanic/Anglo-Celtic cities.  I’m not saying it’s a deliberate prejudice; and one poster might not be to blame; but if these are the rumors that are going around the North American backpacking circuit, then you gotta admit that American and Canadian societies have a LOT of prejudice deeply ingrained in their subconscious.  Case in point: the gas-on-night-train rumor and the baby-throwing gypsies…these urban legends always take place in Italy; never in Britain or the Netherlands.

Let’s just swallow our pride as Americans and admit we’re not as objective and fair-minded as we claim, and that we are subject to the same ethnic/cultural xenophobia and nationalism as the rest of the world.  We feel more comfortable in societies that are more similar to us ethno-culturally, and we will always assume the worst for everyone else.

Damn, this thread is soooooo “beach”.

I would offer Big Mike some help but it looks like he’s abandoned this pathetic hen fight of a thread.

Potential pitfalls aside (imagined, assumed or real)…  What to see in Europe depends on what you are interested in and how you are traveling place to place, etc. If you are there in the summer, for a month you seem a little all over the place.

Madrid – I really liked Madrid, good for art if you are into that sort of thing.
Barcelona – Nice too, good for architecture
Paris  – Paris is great but it looks like it is not near any of your other destinations, so if you are not keen on going, missing Paris gives you more time in other places. But you really should try to see Paris in your lifetime.
Munich – Munich is beautiful! Fussen is nearby with the famous castle.
Dublin – If your are going to spend the time to get there, see more than Dublin in Ireland.

So Im usually a lurker on here, you guys have so much great information to share and i’ve planned so many of my trips with this site!

luv_the_beach you are off your (to use words that you’ll understand here) fucking rocker buddy. Italy and Greece ARE fucking dangerous in terms of street crime. You can pull all the irrelevant murder statistics that you want to make yourself feel better but my personal experiences, as well as those of many of my travelling friends are totally opposite of what you assure us are TRUE FACTS.

Greece safe, that’s maybe truer than Italy, but no where but Italy did i get pickpocketed three times, watch several people have shit stolen on the underground trains in Rome and have my girlfriend constantly harrassed on the streets by these buff “machismo” men who took the liberty of groping her in crowded subways quite often. I suppose youll tell us all this is the “culture” and “when in rome.”

WRONG
They are actually two of the safest countries in the world.
 
Sorry to hurt your pride buddy.  But facts are FACTS. 
 
Average annual murder rates per 100,000 population 2000-2005:

South Africa 47.53
Colombia 39.33
Jamaica 33.69
Guatemala 25.47
Russia 19.80
Mexico 13.04
Latvia 8.58
Argentina 9.47
Lithuania 9.38
Peru 5.54
United States 5.5
Uruguay 5.64
Switzerland 2.94
Iran 2.93
Finland 2.75
Sweden 2.39
Czech Republic 2.22
South Korea 2.18
Britain 2.03
Canada 2.01
France 1.64
Belgium 1.50
Algeria 1.39
New Zealand 1.29
Australia 1.28
Spain 1.25
Italy 1.23
Iceland 1.03
Kuwait 0.99
Germany 0.98
Saudi Arabia 0.92
Ireland 0.91
Greece 0.76
United Arab Emirates 0.63
Japan 0.50

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_murder_rate

 


So, if you’ve enver been to Greece, why are you assuming that it’s the same as Italy?  Maybe because you’re a prejudiced biggot?

The only places I have ever been a victim of theft (OVER AND OVER AGAIN) were the United States and Canada. 
 
Sorry about your experience BUT GET OVER YOURSELF AND YOUR FUCKING PREJUDICED PRIDE and accept reality asshole.  I have no problem warning travelers against the dangers of traveling, but it DOES tick me off when people make ASSUMPTIONS, and overlook the MASSIVE SOCIAL PROBLEMS IN THEIR OWN COUNTRIES.

WHETHER YOU WANT TO ADMIT IT OR NOT, NORTHERN EUROPE AND NORTH AMERICA HAVE HIGHER CRIME THAN SOUTHERN EUROPE. PERIOD.  AND THE UNITED STATES IS ONE OF THE MOST DANGEROUS IF NOT THE MOST DANGEROUS COUNTRIES IN THE INDUSTRIALIZED WORLD.  GET OFF YOUR ANGLO/GERMANIC SUPREMACIST HIGH HORSES AND ADMIT ANOTHER REGION OF THE WORLD IS SAFER THAN YOURS.