Could it be that the train that takes 10 hours is an overnight sleeper or a bizarre local/stopping service with connections? The TGV (high speed train) from Gare de Lyon takes 5.5 hours and only stops at a handful of places along the way.

Possibly. Since it is overnight, I’m assuming that’s why it’s a longer trip, which is fine with me because I could sleep overnight and not have to pay for a hotel. I’m considering a similar overnight trip from Nice to Interlaken, Switzerland, but only if overnights count as one travel day rather than two. That’s the most frustrating part!

That 10 hour train is indeed an overnight train, and you have the right idea that it can save you on a night of accommodation.

Perfect! I’m now looking into a few overnights, including Berlin to Paris, Paris to Nice and Nice to Interlaken. I guess I should get used to sleeping sitting up!

lollynyc wrote:

I guess I should get used to sleeping sitting up!

Only if you’re trying to be super frugal. The price difference between a berth in a couchette (you get to sleep on a bunk) and a reclining seat is only about 30 euros on that train from Paris to Nice; I’d take the couchette. You may already know about overnight trains, but here’s a little info if not:
http://www.seat61.co…

The 10+ hour train is the overnight train, as augustin pointed out. It’s a conventional train that runs at conventional speed.

The 5.5 hour train is the TGV (France’s high-speed trains). On this particular route (Paris-Nice), the TGV train runs on high-speed track for the vast majority of the route (from Paris until it nears Marseille) taking a little over 3 hours to reach the Mediterranean coast, then it switces to conventional track for the remainder of the way (Marseille-Nice).

Train schedules normally indicate if the particular train is a high speed train. The schedule should designate the type of train (like if it’s a TGV). Here are Europe’s major high-speed trains:

• TGV (within France with some service to neighboring countries, operated by SNCF, the French national rail service)
• AVE (within Spain. operated by RENFE, the Spanish national rail service)
• ICE (within Germany with some service to neighboring countries. operated by Deutsche Bahn, the German national rail service)
• Thalys (connects cities in Netherlands and Belgium to each other and to Cologne and Paris. run by France’s SNCF, Germany’s Deutsche Bahn, and Belgium’s national rail service, the NMBS/SNCB)
• Eurostar (connects London to Paris and Brussels. run jointly by France’s SNCF, Belgium’s NMBS/SNCB, and Eurostar Ltd, a British corporation)
• Cisalpino (connects cities in Switzerland to cities in northern Italy. run jointly by Italy’s Trenitalia and Swiss Federal Railways. Cisalpino sevice has mostly conventional speeds, but includes some high-speed routes)
• Eurostar Italia (within Italy, operated by Trenitalia, the Italian national rail service. TAV is an alternate name for high-speed rail in Italy, and may include high-speed Cisalpino routes.)

High speed trains don’t run on high-speed lines all the time, so a high-speed train might run on high-speed track for the good portion of the journey, then switch to conventional track for the final leg. A notable exception is Spain’s AVE which can only run on high-speed track.

Many thanks, to both of you!

Question about the overnight trains. If I have a rail pass (I am thinking of doing the 15 day consecutive pass so I can have unlimited travel throughout Europe just in case I change my mind, which I know I will!) would I be able to get a couchette by paying a little extra for that trip?

I know that, from your current perspective, the idea of an overnight train is attractive, but imagine arriving exhausted after an almost sleepless night! And, why Nice in November?

I know that, from your current perspective, the idea of an overnight train is attractive, but imagine arriving exhausted after an almost sleepless night! And, why Nice in November?

lollynyc,

I forgot to answer one of your earlier questions: with Eurail, if your overnight train departs after 7PM, it counts for the next travel day. This way, you don’t use up two travel days.

I agree with Basie that visiting Nice in November is an odd decision. Do you think you can move the trip up to October?

No…I’m mainly going just because I want to see it. My trip is booked for November and I was originally only going to do Berlin/Salzburg but I figure I might as well spend a day in Nice. I don’t necessarily need or want to relax on the beach. I grew up in the Cape so I’m used to hanging by the sea in cooler weather.

Re: Overnight trains… I can sleep ANYWHERE! When I went to DC last November, I did an overnight bus and while it was only a five hour bus ride, I slept the entire time. Every bus ride I take back from the Cape to NYC, I’m out like a light. I think if I’m tired from exploring, 12 hours on a train will be very welcoming as a bed.

You’re a night train natural! My wife couldn’t sleep at all on our Milan-Barcelona train and got motion sick, so no more night trains when I travel with her. I typically get some sleep, but it’s not exactly restful sleep. I have found on my last couple of Paris-Barcelona trips that a bottle of wine in the bar car before bed helps me

Hehe. I think Benadryl does the trick for me! I’ll definitely be packing my little bottle with me. My flight from NY to Berlin is a red eye, and that’s going to have to be a Benadryl night as well!

Well, hoping that nobody on this forum will accuse me of paranoia, I’d say that taking [a killer dose of] Benadryl while on a night train won’t be the best move from the safety standpoint.

I’ve lived in NYC for the past four years and nap on the subways every day to and from work. And I’ve lived in some SKETCHY areas (181st and Bway anyone?) so if I’m okay with that, I think I’ll be okay with this! Plus, nothing I’ll be bringing will be of any value, except for my iPod/phone and wallet, which have convenient little pockets INSIDE my jacket… so I’m usually okay. If they’d really want my backpack with the old jeans and sweaters I’m planning on bringing, that’s fine with me!

Another new question… if I have a pass for the trains, does that include the night trains? I’m assuming it does… but the website can be confusing. For example, if you click on ‘details’ for a specific ride, it says “Train 1” and then gives information about the couchettes and “Train 2” has information about seats but it doesn’t say whether you’re on train 1 or train 2, or whether “train 1” and “train 2” mean separate CARS…which is what I’m assuming. I’m used to Amtrak where if you want to book a roomette, you click roomette, and if you want to book a seat, you click seat!

I’m just very confused about the passes in general. I understand that if a train leaves after 7 pm, it only counts as one day of travel and not two (which is perfect). But say this is the situation. Say I’m in Berlin and I have a 4 country pass. I want to leave on the 10 pm train that night to Salzburg. Do I have to call or visit the station in advance to book that train? Or do I just show up, get on the train, grab a seat and they check my pass as they’re going up and down the aisles? On Amtrak, they walk up the aisles at every stop and if you’ve just gotten on, they check your ticket. If you’ve been on for awhile, you have a slip of paper above your seat showing where you got on and where you’re getting off. Is this train similar? Also, it seems that the overnights don’t have any stops, which is great… so I’m assuming I just check the train time, hop on, and they check my pass. Am I correct in this assumption? I want to get every little detail down before I book anything! (Yes, and I’ve been told I like to over-analyze!)

Could you be more specific when you say “click on ‘details’”? If you have “train 1” and “train 2” that probably means you need to make a connection (change trains).

As far as hopping on a night train, the answer is, unfortunately, “no”. Most night trains require a reservation, which has to be purchased before you board. While it’s possible to get a reservation right before departure, some trains sell out so it’s better if you buy one in advance.

Sorry – when I search for a train, in the right hand column it gives you the options of 2nd class economy, 2nd class unrestricted, etc. Above the price for each class, it says “details”. Train 1 meaning the first train you’re on and train 2 meaning the second makes sense, as the train stops in Munich before continuing onto Salzburg.

So if I have a pass, would I call up to reserve a spot on a night train and say that I’m using my pass?

So you are looking at CNL 1201 (night train) that takes you from Berlin (leaves Main Station at 22:14) to Munich (arrives Main Station at 6:42), right? Then what you see under “details” is your connection schedule, that is in Munich you change to another train IC 111 to Salzburg (leaves Main Station at 7:26). By the way, both trains make intermediate stops, to see those you get to click on the train number. Assuming CNL arrives roughly on schedule you have over 40 minutes to grab your breakfast and make your connection.

The easiest way to reserve a spot is to just walk up to any ticket window anywhere in Germany, show them your pass and tell them that you need a reservation for this trip. Or you can try to book it online. (Not sure if that is possible for this particular connection though.)

Thanks. I’ve kind of gone through my itinerary and changed it up a bit, so that I don’t have any overnight trains at this point. There may be one or two in the future, but as of right now I am just traveling to places within 4 or 5 hours of each other so there is no need to sit on 12 hour trips. Thanks for all of your help! (and yes, that was the train I was looking at.)